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  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Those that had no insurance coverage could walk into a ER and get care. After it was in affect for some time it was reported that about the same amount of people still had no coverage, it was just that those without coverage before now had it and abut the same amount that had it before lost it after.

    The price of coverage had to go up, pre-existing had to be covered now where before they would be covered but generally with a waiting period of 1 to several years, and I believe they had to accept every one. Those 2 are huge. Imagine you have to cover autos fixing previous damage and you have to accept the worst drivers.

    Medical costs went up from Dr.s retiring early creating a shortage but I don't think that covered amount of the increase, I do think the medical providers took advantage of the situation. Insurance companies also to some extent but not as bad as the providers. Of course that brings up another reason for the insurance to increase, they had to pay for higher medical provider bills.

    The whole thing stinks. I have to blame the politicians the most. Their job it to watch out for our best interest, they did not do that, they looked out for themselves. Remember when the plan first came out, Congress Critters were included in the plan, then the S**t hit the fan and all of a sudden Congress Critters and unions were exempt. That didn't seem to sink in with those that supported it. It should have.

    Looking now at single payer, no one seems to want to take the reins on it. Why is that? Do you suppose they can see where it will go the same way and don't want to be associated with that train? I think they know better if they want to hang on to their cushy seat!!!
    There is only one reason that the ACA caused more problems than it solved & that is because it relied solely on the for profit insurance market. Medicare worked because it bypassed the insurance market at least to a degree. The insurance companies have slowly nudged their way into medicare charging outrageous prices for the 20% gap that medicare doesn't cover & encouraging older people to go to their private HMO medicare advantage systems. Any system that is totally dependent on private insurance companies will never work.
    Gary
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    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    There is only one reason that the ACA caused more problems than it solved & that is because it relied solely on the for profit insurance market. Medicare worked because it bypassed the insurance market at least to a degree. The insurance companies have slowly nudged their way into medicare charging outrageous prices for the 20% gap that medicare doesn't cover & encouraging older people to go to their private HMO medicare advantage systems. Any system that is totally dependent on private insurance companies will never work.
    And any system that depends entirely on the government will never work. Which is why I suggested cash only some posts back. I am not saying it would be painless, but in the long run less painful, and eventually more affordable.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    There was no safety net built into the ACA because logically it should not have needed one. It was only designed to cover those who were not already insured or those whose insurance plans were worthless.
    It relied on the market to take care of the rest of the population who was already covered & that was a huge mistake. The insurance companies just outsmarted the government & the people & used the ACA as a way to make more money off existing plans. The insurance companies raised premiums & deductibles & out of pocket expenses & everybody blamed the ACA when in fact there were only minor changes to their existing coverage that should have had a very minimal effect. The biggest beneficiaries of the ACA were the health insurance & healthcare industry but no one wants to blame the greed of the market but instead want to put all the blame on the government. Sure the gov. is to blame for enacting such a poor plan but it's all because whoever wrote the plan wanted to keep the market in charge.
    The market?

    The market isn't there to take care of those who can't participate in it. So yes, they need a safety net. A crappy bare bones safety net.

    But isn't that what Medicaid is supposed to do? And wasn't Medicaid coverage increased dramatically under the ACA for just that purpose? To cover the people which it failed to cover in the first place?

    But despite these new safety net promises from the federal government, everyone's insurance and healthcare costs shot through the roof. You guys speak about the federal government having the answers for the uninsured, but ignore that was the purpose of Medicaid in the first place. And the purpose behind dramatically increasing Medicaid coverage under the ACA.

    If this is correct, it seams to me the federal government trying to provide a safety net has been, and will always be a disaster.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Are you serious with thee responses? If congress critters has ACA compliant plans there would have been no need to exempt, same with unions, their coverage would have stayed. The problem was the ACA plans were forcing these groups to drop good coverage for worse coverage.

    If ACA wasn't suppose to provide everyone the same base coverage with better plans for a price then what was the point?

    ACA caused insurance and medical cost to increase, how does that not make it worse for most including Medi patients their supplement costs went up. If costs go up by a penny it hurts, it is not insurmountable but it still puts extra strain on a budget.

    If your ER does not give you medical care what is the point of having it? The ERs around here will do what they can but they are often not equipped to properly set bones by today's standard. Probably why they stabilized your break and sent you on.

    Most insurance coverage I have seen pre-ACA covered pre-existing but only after a waiting period. Like aheart condition may be a year or 2. After ACA they had to cover it from day 1. It is a huge difference 12 months of premium or no premiums.
    The ACA was crony capitalism at its finest from both sides of the isle. The goal was to put obscene profits in the hands of the Big Three. That mission is accomplished. End of story.

    All the bickering of what it was, why it was, what is was supposed to be, who it served and who did it are all mute points now. They got it passed. End of story.

    Asking a politician to force healthcare providers to be more transparent or to go to a cash system is like a cyclist asking God to put more oxygen in the air. Won't happen and is stupid to even consider it a viable solution.

    IMO, those that want the free market to solve this problem don't really have a dog in the hunt...nor do they give a hoot about the subject. Because how could they, their solution is so ridiculous.

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    The ACA was crony capitalism at its finest from both sides of the isle. The goal was to put obscene profits in the hands of the Big Three. That mission is accomplished. End of story.

    All the bickering of what it was, why it was, what is was supposed to be, who it served and who did it are all mute points now. They got it passed. End of story.

    Asking a politician to force healthcare providers to be more transparent or to go to a cash system is like a cyclist asking God to put more oxygen in the air. Won't happen and is stupid to even consider it a viable solution.

    IMO, those that want the free market to solve this problem don't really have a dog in the race...nor do they give a hoot about the subject.
    Your funnyOrange head ,Moscow Mitch and the rest you don't know how the health care system has their balls. Their stock prices! Like to follow the money.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by servicefitter View Post
    Your funnyOrange head ,Moscow Mitch and the rest you don't know how the health care system has their balls. Their stock prices! Like to follow the money.
    tibi loqui anglicus?

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    tibi loqui anglicus?
    Unus de nullo balls

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    The ACA was crony capitalism at its finest from both sides of the isle. The goal was to put obscene profits in the hands of the Big Three. That mission is accomplished. End of story.

    All the bickering of what it was, why it was, what is was supposed to be, who it served and who did it are all mute points now. They got it passed. End of story.

    Asking a politician to force healthcare providers to be more transparent or to go to a cash system is like a cyclist asking God to put more oxygen in the air. Won't happen and is stupid to even consider it a viable solution.

    IMO, those that want the free market to solve this problem don't really have a dog in the hunt...nor do they give a hoot about the subject. Because how could they, their solution is so ridiculous.
    Anyone that forgets the past is likely to repeat it!!

    Asking the government to fix the screw up they created is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house or the pedophile in charge of the daycare may be a more appropriate analogy.

    Listening to you B*tch and complain all these years since you realized you got screwed by ACA you would think you would have learned your lessen the first time.

    I'm trying to save you from yourself.

  9. Likes Brian8383 liked this post
  10. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Anyone that forgets the past is likely to repeat it!!

    Asking the government to fix the screw up they created is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house or the pedophile in charge of the daycare may be a more appropriate analogy.

    Listening to you B*tch and complain all these years since you realized you got screwed by ACA you would think you would have learned your lessen the first time.

    I'm trying to save you from yourself.
    Is your response to The ACA "no problem, it didn't affect me that much?" Or, "I am waiting for a politician to force the Big Three to operate in a more free market?"

    Exactly what is your solution? Is it the same as the rest of folks here, where they have given up and are now bored with the subject?

  11. #530
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    I have given you my solution, several times and you have poo-pooed it because yo can't wrap your brain around the simplicity of it.

    As I have said before, many times, even laid out the case why it is true, the government can't fix this directly. They can either take over and make it worse or they can create a level playing field for all involved, where there will be winners and losers, and let things fall back to normal like they were before the government thought to make it all better.

  12. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I have given you my solution, several times and you have poo-pooed it because yo can't wrap your brain around the simplicity of it.

    As I have said before, many times, even laid out the case why it is true, the government can't fix this directly. They can either take over and make it worse or they can create a level playing field for all involved, where there will be winners and losers, and let things fall back to normal like they were before the government thought to make it all better.
    Did the govt (SEC) "fix" the Stock Market?

    Does the govt (FBI) show effectiveness in curbing Federal crimes?

    Does the CIA do an OK job?

    Does our Pentagon and Military do a good job?

    Does the Coast Guard to a good job?

    Does the govt do an OK job with maintaining our interstate highways?

    If the govt is so inept, why aren't you asking to abolish those agencies right here, right now?

    You are dead wrong. The govt is the only entity with the power to fix this. It the Right that will not get involved because most their base "has theirs" and will not give up an inch for those that "don't have theirs."

  13. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Did the govt (SEC) "fix" the Stock Market?

    Does the govt (FBI) show effectiveness in curbing Federal crimes?

    Does the CIA do an OK job?

    Does our Pentagon and Military do a good job?

    Does the Coast Guard to a good job?

    Does the govt do an OK job with maintaining our interstate highways?

    If the govt is so inept, why aren't you asking to abolish those agencies right here, right now?

    You are dead wrong. The govt is the only entity with the power to fix this. It the Right that will not get involved because most their base "has theirs" and will not give up an inch for those that "don't have theirs."
    You've used this lame list before and I listed major mistakes that they have each made. The problem is they are he only game in town, no choice, have to use them, unless you think here is a way to open a private sector equivalent {insert favorite laugh here}.

    With health they are not the only game in town, there are choices, workable choices, better choices! The only reason that these choices have not worked is people wanting free, cause it is not fair to have to pay for stuff, so the government got involved and pulled a major "F" the little guy, middle class guy, the guy workin his A$$ off to make this country function. The guy to busy to complain.

    You want free health care move to Canada or the EU, I don't care. But I will tell you this, if the government screws me over one more time I'm done, you can support me. I'll start with unemployment, then switch to welfare and Medicaid, I'll survive till I can retire and collect SS and ride the gravy train home. Don't kid yourself, there are many that will see some do it and follow suit. Why should half of us have to work while half sits back and collects from both ends. That's BS!!!!!

    The poor get on the government rolls and never work, some of them do very well, I don't think I am that crooked. The rich collect from government rules and regs, the game is rigged in their favor. So the government takes the money I sweat and bleed for and gives it to those either above or below me on the economic scale and neither have done anything to deserve it.

    You just want to keep giving them more.
    Smart move!

  14. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    The market?

    The market isn't there to take care of those who can't participate in it. So yes, they need a safety net. A crappy bare bones safety net.

    But isn't that what Medicaid is supposed to do? And wasn't Medicaid coverage increased dramatically under the ACA for just that purpose? To cover the people which it failed to cover in the first place?

    But despite these new safety net promises from the federal government, everyone's insurance and healthcare costs shot through the roof. You guys speak about the federal government having the answers for the uninsured, but ignore that was the purpose of Medicaid in the first place. And the purpose behind dramatically increasing Medicaid coverage under the ACA.

    If this is correct, it seams to me the federal government trying to provide a safety net has been, and will always be a disaster.
    I'm not disagreeing about insurance shooting though the roof but you blame it on the gov. & I blame it on the market. The ACA was just a poor attempt to solve some of the problems that have evolved with the healthcare industry. It looks like it it can't be done by using the market & that is what it tried to do. If you can come up with a better solution than single payer then I'm all ears but if you keep saying going to more of a free market system would fix it then I have to disagree.
    Gary
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    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

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