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  1. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    So you can't switch insurance companies? If you can why can't any other employee? They would be dropping the employer paid part but they can still buy their own. If SP is the rule there is no where else to go, you are stuck with what they allow you.
    Right now Medicare recipients are a captive audience. Why isn't Medicare reducing benefits to them now?

    Besides, who says private insurance would be outlawed. They will still be needed to cover the 20% not covered by Medicare and SP. Also, nobody drops their employee sponsored health insurance and elects to pay double for private insurance.

  2. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Right now Medicare recipients are a captive audience. Why isn't Medicare reducing benefits to them now?

    Besides, who says private insurance would be outlawed. They will still be needed to cover the 20% not covered by Medicare and SP. Also, nobody drops their employee sponsored health insurance and elects to pay double for private insurance.
    First who says Medi isn't. I have heard from many upset older customers telling me that they went to the Dr. only to find out Medi wouldn't pay for what ever it was they needed done.

    Deuce: if Medi drops another 15% are you going to be ok with paying the same in health taxes then having to pay more to your supplement supplier? I think not. At that point you won't have a choice of paying your own 100% coverage because once SP is brought in the government will want a captive audience and will limit what the supplementals will cover. Just like once you can get on Medi I don't think you can keep your old coverage whether employer supplied or self paid. Sounds like a great system for those that want to float through life and not have to decide for themselves. Then they can claim the victim because they had no say so they made no bad choices {except wanting single payer}.

    Finally, what do you think happens when they change jobs going from a large company to a small one. A lot of small companies can't afford to pay all or part of health coverage. Or it could be that the employee does not believe they are getting their moneys worth and want something better even if it costs more. Most employers will give your wages a bump if they are not paying for your coverage.

  3. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I'm going over the bill for the emergency we went to about two months ago.

    1 - doctor bill .......................... $1,035.00.
    2 - another doctor we never saw $ 248.00
    3 - Hospital/ CAT scan & medication $7875.52

    Grand total for a trip to the ER for severe migraine ... $ 9,158.52

    Now after Medicare gets the bill & reduces it down
    1 - doctor .............. 114.00
    2 - doctor ............. 42.00
    3 -hospital ........... 685.30

    So the $9,158.52 bill is reduced to $841.30 if you have Medicare & they pay 80% of that. So you or your insurance company are responsible for the other 20%.
    If you don't have Medicare but have insurance that is in the hospital's network, the bill would probably be reduced to somewhere around $1,200.00.
    If you have no insurance then you get three bills totaling $9,158.52. Then it's a matter of what the girls in the three different billing offices will accept as payment. The hospitals will usually give a discount but the doctors & technicians rarely do.
    This is the screwed up system we have & no one on either side of the isle has even brought up this problem let alone attempted to solve it. Trump has at least talked about the problem of balanced billing but that only deals with people who go into the hospital with insurance that the hospital accepts in network & get bills from people out of network. It doesn't stop the ridiculous billing especially for people whose insurance is not in the hospitals network or people without insurance. But then again, letting everyone bill whatever they want is the free market at it's finest.
    For the love of God....... Stop saying what is happening is the free market.

    I can't take it anymore.

  4. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    For the love of God....... Stop saying what is happening is the free market.

    I can't take it anymore.
    When I use the term free market, I know I'm stretching the definition but there are going to be government regulations or interventions in almost any business. Even the HVAC business has licensing, permitting, EPA regulations, codes etc.. that are government mandated to add to the cost of doing business but I still consider it Free Market because it is a supply & demand business where we set our own prices. So when it comes to pricing the free market difference between the HVAC & health care business is government run medicare & medicaid where prices are controlled and other than that we both set our prices as we like. I don't know of any private hospital that doesn't take medicare, I assume there are some but I'm sure it's a business decision either way. So my point wasn't that the hospital system is a total free market system but that the billing system is that of the free market where there are no restrictions & it is based on supply & demand & profit & write offs.
    Gary
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    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  5. #356
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    I'm without a Medicine due to my BCBS PPO, doing a "Review." This is the "Problem," The Medicine was 180, for thirty pills. Don't know what their cost was, it's not the balance of the gross cost, Pharmacist told me that. The Medicine went Generic, I had the Pharmacist fill it as a substitute, since they didn't have the Brand name. My cost 5, for thirty pills. They are reviewing it, for the generic. As of today, they've had 44 days to review. BTW I'm on my fourth day without it, as I realized there was a problem, it's happened three times before. I started taking it every 36 hours to stretch it out.
    Retired, after 43 Years

  6. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    First who says Medi isn't. I have heard from many upset older customers telling me that they went to the Dr. only to find out Medi wouldn't pay for what ever it was they needed done.

    Deuce: if Medi drops another 15% are you going to be ok with paying the same in health taxes then having to pay more to your supplement supplier? I think not. At that point you won't have a choice of paying your own 100% coverage because once SP is brought in the government will want a captive audience and will limit what the supplementals will cover. Just like once you can get on Medi I don't think you can keep your old coverage whether employer supplied or self paid. Sounds like a great system for those that want to float through life and not have to decide for themselves. Then they can claim the victim because they had no say so they made no bad choices {except wanting single payer}.

    Finally, what do you think happens when they change jobs going from a large company to a small one. A lot of small companies can't afford to pay all or part of health coverage. Or it could be that the employee does not believe they are getting their moneys worth and want something better even if it costs more. Most employers will give your wages a bump if they are not paying for your coverage.
    Sorry BNM, I just do not fear what you do about Medicare. If they were so bad why haven't they raised the percent withdrawn (their rates) in decades, yet still remain a viable insurer? Why do they stick up for us the best by forcing rip off healthcare providers to accept the LEAST for medical procedures? IMO, Medicare has proven itself to be the only ones to trust and the only ones that can stand up the corporate corruption.

    We can afford to go to war because we force every American to contribute. If we allowed the anti-war and anti-tax folks to not contribute to national defense we would be vastly inferior. We need every American to contribute to national healthcare. Employee plans do this on a small scale and get tremendous discounts for it. If we did it large scale the discount would be even greater.

    OH, and nobody now has a choice in anything. Not the employee, not me or the Medicare and Medicaid folks. Choice is a ruse. The only way to get cheaper insurance rates it to work for a larger company.

    My wife is a 'contingent' for Verizon Wireless. Real soon she will be hired as an employee and offered their stellar benefit package. We will see how working for a large corp affects insurance rates. I will probably be like you guys who won't want my boat rocked and say screw everyone else. "I got mine."

  7. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Sorry BNM, I just do not fear what you do about Medicare. If they were so bad why haven't they raised the percent withdrawn (their rates) in decades, yet still remain a viable insurer? Why do they stick up for us the best by forcing rip off healthcare providers to accept the LEAST for medical procedures? IMO, Medicare has proven itself to be the only ones to trust and the only ones that can stand up the corporate corruption.

    We can afford to go to war because we force every American to contribute. If we allowed the anti-war folks to not contribute to national defense we would be vastly inferior. We need every American to contribute to national healthcare. Employee plans do this on a small scale and get tremulous discounts for it. If we did it large scale the discount would be even greater.
    So you want to pay for a Medicare budget the size of the military budget. Why don't we just hand over our whole paycheck and let the government give us what they think is fair.

    For some reason you keep missing the point that the free market is what is holding the government in check. People will not be happy if the government program is more expensive than private insurance. Once private is gone or limited to 20% or so then there is no deterrent any longer to them raising prices to what ever level they desire. You have no where to go. The other thing is have you ever seen a tax go down? Yes we have had tax breaks where they lower income taxes, some get more some get less but they go back up over time. So you have a benevolent leader and they keep the prices low, then you have a tyrant come in and they jack the price up. When the tyrant get voted out the health tax will stay up. Never underestimate the governments ability to tax and spend. As I have said before in the 60's the state started a cigarette tax to build a arena. The tax went on the arena was built the arena was used, the arena was paid for, the arena was torn down, and the tax is till on.

    The problem is there is only one government and it is very hard to change it. As long as there are many insurance companies to choose from, the more the better, the less expensive the insurance will be. If ACA hasn't proven that to you, you need to take off the blinders. Prices were much more reasonable before Obama started talking about ACA then now. Direct cause and affect, what more evidence do you need?

  8. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    So you want to pay for a Medicare budget the size of the military budget. Why don't we just hand over our whole paycheck and let the government give us what they think is fair.

    For some reason you keep missing the point that the free market is what is holding the government in check. People will not be happy if the government program is more expensive than private insurance. Once private is gone or limited to 20% or so then there is no deterrent any longer to them raising prices to what ever level they desire. You have no where to go. The other thing is have you ever seen a tax go down? Yes we have had tax breaks where they lower income taxes, some get more some get less but they go back up over time. So you have a benevolent leader and they keep the prices low, then you have a tyrant come in and they jack the price up. When the tyrant get voted out the health tax will stay up. Never underestimate the governments ability to tax and spend. As I have said before in the 60's the state started a cigarette tax to build a arena. The tax went on the arena was built the arena was used, the arena was paid for, the arena was torn down, and the tax is till on.

    The problem is there is only one government and it is very hard to change it. As long as there are many insurance companies to choose from, the more the better, the less expensive the insurance will be. If ACA hasn't proven that to you, you need to take off the blinders. Prices were much more reasonable before Obama started talking about ACA then now. Direct cause and affect, what more evidence do you need?
    This subject has many facets but The ACA was written to allow mega insurance companies and mega healthcare providers to crush the small players and create monopolies. That is why it was written...not to provide healthcare to the poor who already had healthcare. It is also why both the Right and Left like it left the way it is...for bigger campaign contributions.

    It appears the Left, with their quest for SP, are the ones with integrity and willing to give up those campaign contributions by dealing a deathblow to the insurance companies and healthcare providers.

    Let's see the Right ever do anything to harm a mega-corp.

  9. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    This subject has many facets but The ACA was written to allow mega insurance companies and mega healthcare providers to crush the small players and create monopolies. That is why it was written...not to provide healthcare to the poor who already had healthcare. It is also why both the Right and Left like it left the way it is...for bigger campaign contributions.

    It appears the Left, with their quest for SP, are the ones with integrity and willing to give up those campaign contributions by dealing a deathblow to the insurance companies and healthcare providers.

    Let's see the Right ever do anything to harm a mega-corp.
    Lol. What a joke.

    They are pushing for SP for control of the idiots. And judging from comments made in this thread, they are right about many being idiots.

    It's in man's nature to rule over subjects. A quest for power and control is carved into the nature of man. And despite the founding documents doing their best to keep these worst traits of humans from gaining power, guys like you willingly hand them these powers.

    LOL. The left isn't sacrificing anything. They are fulfilling their authoritarian zeolotry. Nothing would make them more proud. What you are seeing from the left is the progression the founders wisely sought to prevent. And some are willing to die(politically speaking) for the cause. But that's not integrity. Far from it.


    in·teg·ri·ty

    /inˈteɡrədē/

    noun

    1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness



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  10. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    This subject has many facets but The ACA was written to allow mega insurance companies and mega healthcare providers to crush the small players and create monopolies. That is why it was written...not to provide healthcare to the poor who already had healthcare. It is also why both the Right and Left like it left the way it is...for bigger campaign contributions.

    It appears the Left, with their quest for SP, are the ones with integrity and willing to give up those campaign contributions by dealing a deathblow to the insurance companies and healthcare providers.

    Let's see the Right ever do anything to harm a mega-corp.
    GC, you are making my point. The "GOVERNMENT" are the ones that not only allowed this to happen but created the atmosphere to make it happen,for campaign contributions as you claim. This is the same government that you want to provide your healthcare because why? Do you think that the government will suddenly start acting in your best interest once they have you by the short hairs? Seriously????? Please note, I am not saying left or right is better one than the other, they would all lie about their beloved grandmother if they thought it meant more power for themselves.

    You say it was written for the mega corps and was never about health care for the poor which is what it was touted for. Many of use were saying from the start it had nothing to do with healthcare for the poor. Nice to see you catching up. So I can only assume you didn't get abused bad enough the first go around you want to go for seconds?

    I don't get it. Someone screws me over once I am going to do everything I can to make sure they don't get the second chance, yet you and others seem hell bent on making it happen, like miraculously the leopard is going to change its spots.

    You seriously think that the congress critters pushing for SP are not getting a kick back from Drug Co's or Medical providers? You think they have seen the error in their ways and are thinking "You know, that GC is a pretty nice guy and we sure screwed him over with ACA, so let's see if we can help him out". Which 2 stuffed suits do you think had that conversation, Pelosie and Schummer? Here is a hint, any time you think a politician is doing something selfless to help you go hit your thumb with a hammer, yeah the framing one with the waffle face so it doesn't slip. Often times pain can bring one back into reality.

    Just turn on TV and watch the Hearings with Mueller if you think these idiots have your welfare in mind, either side. All they are doing is vying for position. Think about it, 2 years, over 2 years, over $40 mil, time and money wasted and they could have spent that money and time doing something constructive, like trying to figure out how to cheat us out of more money, right.

  11. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    GC, you are making my point. The "GOVERNMENT" are the ones that not only allowed this to happen but created the atmosphere to make it happen,for campaign contributions as you claim. This is the same government that you want to provide your healthcare because why? Do you think that the government will suddenly start acting in your best interest once they have you by the short hairs? Seriously????? Please note, I am not saying left or right is better one than the other, they would all lie about their beloved grandmother if they thought it meant more power for themselves.

    You say it was written for the mega corps and was never about health care for the poor which is what it was touted for. Many of use were saying from the start it had nothing to do with healthcare for the poor. Nice to see you catching up. So I can only assume you didn't get abused bad enough the first go around you want to go for seconds?

    I don't get it. Someone screws me over once I am going to do everything I can to make sure they don't get the second chance, yet you and others seem hell bent on making it happen, like miraculously the leopard is going to change its spots.

    You seriously think that the congress critters pushing for SP are not getting a kick back from Drug Co's or Medical providers? You think they have seen the error in their ways and are thinking "You know, that GC is a pretty nice guy and we sure screwed him over with ACA, so let's see if we can help him out". Which 2 stuffed suits do you think had that conversation, Pelosie and Schummer? Here is a hint, any time you think a politician is doing something selfless to help you go hit your thumb with a hammer, yeah the framing one with the waffle face so it doesn't slip. Often times pain can bring one back into reality.

    Just turn on TV and watch the Hearings with Mueller if you think these idiots have your welfare in mind, either side. All they are doing is vying for position. Think about it, 2 years, over 2 years, over $40 mil, time and money wasted and they could have spent that money and time doing something constructive, like trying to figure out how to cheat us out of more money, right.
    If this hypothetical power and control is what they are vying for, how are they using their current "power and control" to screw those on Medicare? By not raising the rates for twenty years? By paying less per procedure than any insurance co? By insuring the sickest, most needy Americans with a platinum plan? By always accepting pre-existing conditions?

    Tell me, are you just as skeptical about the competence of the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, SEC, etc? If so, let's get rid of them too.

  12. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    If this hypothetical power and control is what they are vying for, how are they using their current "power and control" to screw those on Medicare? By not raising the rates for twenty years? By paying less per procedure than any insurance co? By insuring the sickest, most needy Americans with a platinum plan? By always accepting pre-existing conditions?

    Tell me, are you just as skeptical about the competence of the Pentagon, the FBI, CIA, SEC, etc?
    Yes I am. Remember the WMD's of the Iraq war, the FBI and Trump hearing, stuffed suits in congress not getting called on insider trading, yeah we are getting screwed by the entire bunch. You have to understand, bureaucrats have all the time in the world. Look at what they have slowly done to schools, religion. even politics, look at how they are dividing us and how most people are unaware it is going on. Apparently, you don't see it? I am not much of a conspiracy theorist and don't see special ops behind every tree, or black helicopters in the night sky, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and swim like a duck, does not mean it is not a snake in disguise if you get my drift. The thing is politician come and go. Too many concentrate on them. The real ones in power are the bureaucrats, they stay in places of power for years only moving up or out. Trump has 8 years at most, a Senator or Congressman maybe 20 except for the exceptional ones. But a Bureaucrat can be there for 40 years or more. Don't you ever look at what is going on around you and ask yourself "WHY". Gays have been with us forever but look at the push the last 15 years, The left fights one side the right the other, then suddenly they have switched sides. We send solders to some hellhole where a Seal team should be able to take the country in a week yet 1000 boots on the ground can't get across the street in a month. Why are we still in Afghanistan, I don't think it is the rich oil deposits, do they even have oil. The only thing I know that they excel in is poppy/opium.

    Don't get me wrong I don't have any answers on any of this stuff. Like I remember back in the day they kept saying the files on the Kennedy assassination would be unsealed something like 15 years ago, came and went and still know one knows any more than when he was killed, cept that one guy that hasn't died yet . . . maybe. The thing is the more of this stuff that goes on the less I trust our beloved government. Just look at the crap with ACA, won't know what's in it till it is law. Seriously???? And our congress critters went along with it??? These are some of the smartest minds in the country??? Most 18 year olds know you don't sign something till you know whats in it. Don't even get me started on all the lies BHO spewed along with the bureaucrats and politicians. The lies around ACA were almost a daily event until it was signed, then the back peddling started. The whole thing reminds me of a soap opera except the sex scenes are not in front for the public to see.

    Did I answer your question?

  13. #364
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    GC is getting his ass handed to him again, but his blind rage against the "right" and corps makes him not see it.

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