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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    My father used to tell me that people will be promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    That's a famous business principle. It started off as satire, but after a while it became the real thing.

    Peter principle

    The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". In other words, an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another. The concept was elucidated in the 1969 book The Peter Principle by Peter and Raymond Hull.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

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  3. #41
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    Tool I was finally successful adding you as a friend. Thanks for asking.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Tool I was finally successful adding you as a friend. Thanks for asking.
    Happy to have you as a formal friend buddy! Tea and crumpets anytime, but I usually switch to Budweiser and nachos around 6 or so.

    I am very impressed with your character, seem like a great guy. Not a compliment I hand out often.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_IrXsEHZxM
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    That's a famous business principle. It started off as satire, but after a while it became the real thing.

    Peter principle

    The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". In other words, an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another. The concept was elucidated in the 1969 book The Peter Principle by Peter and Raymond Hull.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
    My father used to tell me that people will be promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

    I find this all very fascinating, but my experience is limited to small businesses in HVAC,... mom and pop operations. There are no "levels". There is a "pecking order" yes. But there are no promotions available beyond "service manager" or "sales manager", something like that.

    I am guessing a corporate environment might entail much more than I can imagine. I sort of shudder to think of it, knowing that one of the finest man I have ever known in my life was pressed into retirement for reasons I will never understand.

    Office politics may be more complicated in a large corporate environment. But most of us here are just hourly workers and better off just doing the job we agreed to do and collecting the wages we agreed to.

    Oh yea, that suck-a who yanked the hammer out of my hand,... he was bucking for promotion. When the opportunity came up for a new service manager he was in the running. I leaked to one who was trusted to pass gossip that I would immediately quit company if he got the position. This is a company with about 10-12 techs. It flew fast, I am sure I am not the only one who felt that way, but I was instrumental in making the situation as it ended. The guy who got the promotion deserved it.

    I did some google. I was there when the the guy who did not get the promotion got peeved and started his own business. Appears it was a failure. No big surprise, he was incapable of work. All he ever cared about was his hair. Seriously, the guy belonged in front of a mirror.

    We all have to deal with office politics, best we avoid any contact as much as we can.

    "too far and too snaky"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC1Pdsppch4
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    When I was 53 in a period of 3 months my wife left, my dad died and I lost my job of 25 years. The company I worked for paid for the ones let go to attend a class to help us cope and advise on getting another job. I didn't need the class because I knew nobody was ever going to fire me again. I attended the class and the lady teaching ask everyone how they felt about losing their job. As luck would have it I was the last person she ask. I said I'm mad as hell and I'm going to stay that way. That caught her by surprise and she actually step back a little. Seeing she was alarmed I said look anger is a good motivator and if used properly has a lot of energy in it and I'm going to use that energy until I get what I want and then I'll let it go. I told her I'm in this class because I was paid to come and that is my last obligation to this company. I don't need this class because I know what I want and am going to find a way to get it. She ask what I wanted and I told her my own business and I'll get it. Her response was I have never heard that approach before but I really believe you will get what you want. A guy in the class then spoke up and said I wish I had that kind of determination and guts because last night I had the gun on the table and didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. I ask him do you really want those low life sons of *****es to have the satisfaction of knowing that job meant your life to you. I told them when I left "I don't need you but you need me so I'm going to go eat breakfast and you can go to hell. I think I helped him because he said I don't know what I'm going to do but you are right I don't want to give them the satisfaction.
    I don't mean this as bragging honestly I don't but I have never related this entire story to anyone but maybe it might help someone and if so I'm glad I got fired. I'm nothing special just a hard headed old bastard that will never give up or waiver and that has sustained me all these 78 years.
    It took me 13 months but I did get my own business and my determination got me a $100,000 small business loan.
    Any of you that faces the same thing or worse don't fret or regret set you mind and do what it takes and you will be OK.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    When I was 53 in a period of 3 months my wife left, my dad died and I lost my job of 25 years. The company I worked for paid for the ones let go to attend a class to help us cope and advise on getting another job. I didn't need the class because I knew nobody was ever going to fire me again. I attended the class and the lady teaching ask everyone how they felt about losing their job. As luck would have it I was the last person she ask. I said I'm mad as hell and I'm going to stay that way. That caught her by surprise and she actually step back a little. Seeing she was alarmed I said look anger is a good motivator and if used properly has a lot of energy in it and I'm going to use that energy until I get what I want and then I'll let it go. I told her I'm in this class because I was paid to come and that is my last obligation to this company. I don't need this class because I know what I want and am going to find a way to get it. She ask what I wanted and I told her my own business and I'll get it. Her response was I have never heard that approach before but I really believe you will get what you want. A guy in the class then spoke up and said I wish I had that kind of determination and guts because last night I had the gun on the table and didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. I ask him do you really want those low life sons of *****es to have the satisfaction of knowing that job meant your life to you. I told them when I left "I don't need you but you need me so I'm going to go eat breakfast and you can go to hell. I think I helped him because he said I don't know what I'm going to do but you are right I don't want to give them the satisfaction.
    I don't mean this as bragging honestly I don't but I have never related this entire story to anyone but maybe it might help someone and if so I'm glad I got fired. I'm nothing special just a hard headed old bastard that will never give up or waiver and that has sustained me all these 78 years.
    It took me 13 months but I did get my own business and my determination got me a $100,000 small business loan.
    Any of you that faces the same thing or worse don't fret or regret set you mind and do what it takes and you will be OK.
    Wayne, great post. Thank you for sharing!
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  8. #46
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    I haven't read any posts on here but here is a positive about office politics.

    I'm positive it's a bad idea.

  9. #47
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    I have worked for businesses of several different sizes. It appeared to me the larger the company the more political things got. In the bigger companies it was irritating that when a relative was hired and promoted the case was always made that they excelled. They could be worthless but were insulated from blame no matter what. Anyone of us if running a successful business would want a son or daughter joining the firm. That didn't bother me but the dishonesty about it did bother me. In the engineering field the relatives were always not exposed to the parts of the jobs that really made a difference between a good job and a contractor reliant job. In the words of Fred Truman (Harry's nephew) "there comes a time when the contractor throws the f****** funny papers away and builds the SOB". I liked Fred a lot because he was a lot like Harry.
    Tool the way you explain things in small companies never occurred to me in those terms but (pecking order) is a better way to think of it and is not politics if the order is established by qualifications. If not by qualifications a small business wouldn't survive.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    My father used to tell me that people will be promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

    I find this all very fascinating, but my experience is limited to small businesses in HVAC,... mom and pop operations. There are no "levels". There is a "pecking order" yes. But there are no promotions available beyond "service manager" or "sales manager", something like that.

    I am guessing a corporate environment might entail much more than I can imagine. I sort of shudder to think of it, knowing that one of the finest man I have ever known in my life was pressed into retirement for reasons I will never understand.

    Office politics may be more complicated in a large corporate environment. But most of us here are just hourly workers and better off just doing the job we agreed to do and collecting the wages we agreed to.

    Oh yea, that suck-a who yanked the hammer out of my hand,... he was bucking for promotion. When the opportunity came up for a new service manager he was in the running. I leaked to one who was trusted to pass gossip that I would immediately quit company if he got the position. This is a company with about 10-12 techs. It flew fast, I am sure I am not the only one who felt that way, but I was instrumental in making the situation as it ended. The guy who got the promotion deserved it.

    I did some google. I was there when the the guy who did not get the promotion got peeved and started his own business. Appears it was a failure. No big surprise, he was incapable of work. All he ever cared about was his hair. Seriously, the guy belonged in front of a mirror.

    We all have to deal with office politics, best we avoid any contact as much as we can.

    "too far and too snaky"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC1Pdsppch4
    Here is a thought as to how the 'Peter principle' may apply in a small shop...
    Outstanding tech gets promoted to service manager...
    However while that tech is the BEST at what he does... including the customer service part (talking to the customers on the calls)...
    He is not that great of a people manager.
    He struggles to manage the rest of the techs... and as such the techs are not motivated... and he is un-happy because he is struggling to do a job he is not really qualified to do (not one of those folks that is a natural people manager).

    I remember in my really early days working (back in the dark ages... grin)...
    Being in a truck repair shop... where the lead mechanic got the shop manager job...
    It was a similar situation to what I described in the paragraph above...
    Motivation in the entire shop went down hill, as did productivity.
    Sad thing... as the office folks refused to see it. Most of the good guys in the shop (including me) saw the handwriting on the wall and left the company.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  12. #49
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    How come I didn't get that Family benefit? When I was working for my Grand-Uncle, Summer job, said if I screwed up he'd beat my a** in front of the Senior guys, then beat it again in front of family.

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  14. #50
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    You had a great uncle madhat.

    GA you have an excellent point. I think people skills are a must for a manager. I worked for a great manager that called me in and told me another engineer thought our drawings weren't clear and suggested we add some things that would help. He ask my opinion and I told him the only thing the changes would add was the time to do the design. This guy was sharp and my answer gave him what he needed to satisfy my concerns and the other engineer. He said I'm thinking the idea is a good one but implementing at this time in the project isn't feasible. He satisfied everyone without compromising. The guy with the idea wasn't put down and my job stayed on schedule.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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