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  1. #14
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    I would have trouble making change...the way some old geezers give dollars and some change, to get back a quarter instead of .18 cents, etc.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    More likely the firm selling blinds and curtains learned the high school grads of today can't make change, hold an intelligent conversation or even begin to commit themselves to come to work regularly or on time. At least a college graduate stayed with four years of study and perhaps can actually learn how to sell and size blinds as well as make change when paid in cash.
    My wife racked up four diplomas and I had to threaten her with divorce before she decided to stop being a professional student. Sometimes people stick with college because it is comfortable and they have no other direction so somebody with a degree isn't always that much better than a high school grad.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobie View Post
    Why do you think an engineering degree is worthwhile?
    Because if someone wants a career in engineering a degree in engineering is the most direct route and provides a systematic well rounded background in the fundamentals of engineering. A degree in engineering is a good thing but not necessarily the only route.

    I do not have an engineering degree but have a career in HVAC and Building Automation engineering. Most of the others I work with have engineering degrees.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  4. #17
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    If a kid has an aptitude for learning of the academic type, they should be encouraged.
    Higher education is more than learning and classes. The student is exposed to things they wouldn't if they had stayed home, got a job, knock up or be knocked up......

    A philosopher who's name I regrettably forgot had this idea. No more summer vacations. Kids in school all year. Introduce in these classes a broad range of real education.
    Real vs contrived. Contrived meaning teach to get a job. Teach the things needed to contribute.
    The kid would graduate at 16 normally and could not go to college for 2 years when they would be 18. In that time the kid would have a sabbatical where they could explore the raw world to hopefully see a direction.
    After that they could decide if education is their path.

    I found myself agreeing. About all I remember is he was American.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  5. #18
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    Really, why even have high school. Unless a kid is pretty smart. Get them in a trade early. Unless they are a good football or basketball player.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Because if someone wants a career in engineering a degree in engineering is the most direct route and provides a systematic well rounded background in the fundamentals of engineering. A degree in engineering is a good thing but not necessarily the only route.

    I do not have an engineering degree but have a career in HVAC and Building Automation engineering. Most of the others I work with have engineering degrees.
    Do your co workers with eng degrees have an advantage over you? Are they smarter and see things clearer.

    Just curious why you got the degree you did, with the company paying, knowing you would be cracking on the curriculum etc. why not just get an engineering degree?

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    Sending your kids to college today means (at many colleges) sending them to Liberal Brainwash Academy. My kids are grown, but if they were that age, there's no way I'd pay for them to go to a snowflake school. They could choose, but I'd have veto power.

    Now, now, vin...you should be a little more considerate on the topic of ideological brainwashing. Not everyone can handle the intellectual rigors of your alma mater, Bubba's Bible Bootcamp, where the defense of every single epistemological assertion is simply: "Duh...cuz the Bible say so!"

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMasticator View Post
    Now, now, vin...you should be a little more considerate on the topic of ideological brainwashing. Not everyone can handle the intellectual rigors of your alma mater, Bubba's Bible Bootcamp, where the defense of every single epistemological assertion is simply: "Duh...cuz the Bible say so!"
    Off your meds again?

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    Off your meds again?
    You brought up brainwashing, I just offered up another unfortunate example of it.

    Schools are indeed suffering thanks to the meddling of certain kinds of snowflakes, but a similar disservice is being done in churches/temples thanks to other varieties of snowflakes. For whatever reason, you only recognize the one public menace, but the problem is the same in both cases: the institutionalization of deep prejudices.

    Speaking of getting high, one of my relatives used to be an out of control drink and drug abuser, and now he is an out of control Bible banger. Go figure. The funny thing is...no, it's actually quite sad...he is still miserably unhappy, despite being 'saved'. Doesn't want to live anymore. Says he wants to hurry up and meet Jesus.

    So, I guess the question is, how do we revitalize our houses of education and our houses of worship? So very many are a hot mess right now.

  10. #23
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    Another thing. Attendance in church/temple is completely voluntary, unlike (at least the first stages of) schooling, so what does this say about the opportunities for brainwashing that can occur in each? The motivation for someone to go to school is obvious: it's very difficult to survive and progress in human society without being introduced to, and trained in, the complexities of the society (whether technological, economical, legal, etc). However, that very deep need for education reveals an imbalance of power (knowledge is power, after all) that can be easily exploited if unscrupulous teachers/administrators attempt to undermine the intellectual integrity of students.

    The motivation to go to church/temple is quite different, as it's all about the establishment and maintenance of a collective ideology, an ideology that is purported to promote communal cohesion and communal health through contact with the divine. Problem is, despite the claims of all the abundant dogmatists, religious ideologies have no objective authority over who or what is divine, and they invariably lead to conflicts between competing camps (intra- and inter-denominational). Not to mention the umpteen con-artists who flourish when they open up churches or even found new religions. Sad to say, most houses of worship are at best cliquish social clubs and at worst, scams or cults.

    Schooling, on the other hand, doesn't have to serve an ideology in many instances. For example, you can easily teach a large number of subjects to a classroom full of atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Jews. etc. because ideological jockeying plays no part in the subject matter or in the dynamics of instruction. It's basically an uncontroversial situation in which objective knowledge (for example, mathematical knowledge) is being shared for the benefit of all. And because no particular ideology is being served, we can say that a much wider cause of human advancement is being served. Of course, there are many other subjects like history, art/literature, 'social sciences', religion/philosophy, etc. in which ideological fighting can happen, and by means of which many students can be led astray.

    The worst-case scenario for brainwashing occurs, however, when the two types of institutions begin to invert their roles simultaneously and systemically, and that is unfortunately what we face right now: a situation in which educators are pushing all sorts of ideologies, while religious leaders are pretending they have definitive and objective knowledge to teach. What's more, thanks to the polarizing nature of the time, only a minuscule percentage of the population sees both sides of the problem.

  11. #24
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    A simple 'yes' would have sufficed.

  12. #25
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    Thread Starter
    Mad doesn't like things simple vin.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  13. #26
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    Now that there is really sad.

    Sure glad I'm not being born today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    More likely the firm selling blinds and curtains learned the high school grads of today can't make change, hold an intelligent conversation or even begin to commit themselves to come to work regularly or on time. At least a college graduate stayed with four years of study and perhaps can actually learn how to sell and size blinds as well as make change when paid in cash.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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