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  1. #1
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    Nov 2018
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    Need help choosing a heat pump replacement

    I could use some help in making a decision to replace my heat pump in the DFW area.

    Current Units:
    Goodman cplj48-1b - 4 ton for downstairs 4 bedroom, kitchen, living room
    Goodman cplj24-1b - 2 ton for upstairs gameroom

    Upstairs unit has never kept up great when it gets really hot. But room is not used all that much and a powerful fan to push air downstairs helps a lot. The increased need to replace is that both units have required adding freon with the upstairs unit needing a top off every summer.

    I got bids last fall, but chose to save up money to pay cash.

    Bid 1
    One 5 ton unit with zones
    Lennox XC25 - $

    Bid 2
    Downstairs
    Goodman 16-seer 5 ton 2 stage heat pump $
    Daikan 17-seer 2-ton ductless system $
    Total $

    Bid 3
    One 5 ton units with 2 zones
    Provided three Seer options
    Amana 16 SEER $
    Amana 18 SEER $
    Amana 20 SEER $


    Any strong recommendations or one to avoid?
    Last edited by beenthere; 06-02-2019 at 04:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    Jan 2014
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    New England
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    How did they come up with the tonnage for these systems, load calculations?

    Bid number 2 they went larger by one ton for the downstairs, can your existing ductwork handle the extra ton?

    Of all the brands mentioned the Amana has the best manufacturer warranty if that's a important consideration. If bid 3 16 SEER units is 2 stage you get a limited lifetime whole unit OD unit replacement to original registered owner. Certainly the 18 and 20 SEER has the same warranty.

    Considering the Lennox can reach up to 26 SEER ( depending on ID selection ) and has all the bells and whistles their manufacturer warranty is pretty sad IMO. It's the same as a bare bone 13 SEER system at 10/10

    The XC25 Lennox shows it's a straight A/C model, do you mean the XP25 which shows it's a HP.

    Probably one of the more important thing is to make sure they quote AHRI certified matched systems. At the very least you will need that number for any possible rebates.

    Looking for something like this on every model they propose.

    https://ahridirectory.org/Home/Downl...JWcL6j8R0MJhfe
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 06-01-2019 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #3
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    Richmond, VA
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    If the installing contractors are all the same in skill and quality and a load calculation was performed, I would choose Bid 2. Lennox is a terrible brand in my opinion and I’m not a fan of zoned systems because they’re rarely installed properly. I think you’ll like the ductless system for the game room over a ducted system and I would opt for a 10-year parts and labor warranty with Goodman.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    DFW
    2 STORY -
    ? 2650 SQ FT 1st Floor;
    1300 SQ FT 2nd Floor ?

    BUILT _ 19 _ _ / 1998 ?
    Ceiling R-30, Walls R-13

    U need to KNOW What size unit(s) u need.

    It is Actually A Science - Manual J procedure -Building Thermal Envelope Evaluation
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  5. #5
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    Nov 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks all, for replies. This is so helpful. Here are the answers to the questions I saw.

    How did they come up with the tonnage? Two used the existing systems as a bench mark and their previous experience working on the house. One had put it in and the other had repaired several times. The third person did a Manual J. I will try to attach at the bottom of this thread.

    can your existing ductwork handle the extra ton? He mentioned the ductwork and did not seem concerned, but I guess I should explicitly ask.

    Amana unit and warranty? the 16 SEER Amana is a 2 stage. 10 year Amana parts and 99 year unit replacement warranty. 18 and 20 had the same warranty.

    Lennox unit number You are correct it was the XP25 for a heat pump

    House details
    Built 2006
    1st floor ~2300 SQ FT
    2nd floor ~800 SQ FT

    I do not know the wall insulation. I did not pay extra, so expect it is whatever builder grade is. Ceiling Blown insulation would estimate about 10 inches deep. Willing to pay for more insulation if needed. The 2nd floor does touch the roofline (so the same insulation of the walls) for about half of the ceiling.

    Manual J
    I could not get a link to work good.

    Upstairs
    Total Building area: 800 Sq ft
    Total Cooling Load: 17,128.4 BTUh
    Total Cooling tonnage: 1.4 tons
    Total Heating load: 15,185.1 BTUh
    Total airflow: 808.1 CFM

    Breakdown Cooling:
    Windows: 3969
    Envelope: 6932
    Infiltration: 517
    Internal gain: 1345
    Duct / blower heat gain: 3212
    Ventilation: 1152

    Also has the heating breakdown, but will hold off on that unless needed.

    Downstairs
    Total Building Area: 1600 Sq ft
    Total cooling load: 42,369.2 BTUh
    Total cooling tonnage: 3.5 tons
    Total heating load 43,580.6 BTUh
    Total airflow: 2008.2

    Breakdown cooling:
    Windows: 18358
    Envelope: 12289
    Infiltration: 658
    Internal gain: 2980
    Duct and blower heat gain: 5449
    Ventilation: 2633

    Again has the heating breakdown, but will hold off on that unless needed.


    Let me know your thoughts.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2014
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    " Amana unit and warranty? the 16 SEER Amana is a 2 stage. 10 year Amana parts and 99 year unit replacement warranty. 18 and 20 had the same warranty."

    Where did you get this information from? Are you referring to the 99 year as a compressor warranty? The 2019 Amana web-site shows starting at the single stage ASZ16 once registered to original owner you get a new OD unit if compressor ever fails, not a new replacement compressor.

    IMO the 99 year compressor warranty ( you reference? ) falls under the extended parts warranty along with either the 5 or 10 year extended labor warranty that you can purchase. It's called Asure program.

    https://www.amana-hac.com/products/heat-pumps

    " Learn more "

    With an Asure℠ Extended Service Agreement*, you’ll have your choice of 5-years, 10-years, or even up to 99-years (compressor only) of worry-free comfort without the unexpected cost of replacement parts or labor expenses should your Amana brand equipment require service.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joey View Post
    " Amana unit and warranty? the 16 SEER Amana is a 2 stage. 10 year Amana parts and 99 year unit replacement warranty. 18 and 20 had the same warranty."

    Where did you get this information from? Are you referring to the 99 year as a compressor warranty? The 2019 Amana web-site shows starting at the single stage ASZ16 once registered to original owner you get a new OD unit if compressor ever fails, not a new replacement compressor.

    IMO the 99 year compressor warranty ( you reference? ) falls under the extended parts warranty along with either the 5 or 10 year extended labor warranty that you can purchase. It's called Asure program.


    " Learn more "

    With an Asure℠ Extended Service Agreement*, you’ll have your choice of 5-years, 10-years, or even up to 99-years (compressor only) of worry-free comfort without the unexpected cost of replacement parts or labor expenses should your Amana brand equipment require service.
    It was in the text of the quote. Not an official document. And it was from late 2018. I expect that your information is more accurate. Sounds like you would recommend the Amana. Is that correct? Do you see any concerns that a 5 ton unit would be enough?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirSnoopy View Post
    It was in the text of the quote. Not an official document. And it was from late 2018. I expect that your information is more accurate. Sounds like you would recommend the Amana. Is that correct? Do you see any concerns that a 5 ton unit would be enough?
    You can choose any system you like, information was sent as clarification just like the Lennox partial model number you provided.

    If you do go with the Lennox, seeing that system is probably more complicated than the others listed, you may want to consider a extended labor warranty. Granted parts are warrantied for 10 years once registered, but if you have a basic one year labor warranty from the Contractor, depending on cost it may be worth considering?

    Again make sure they install matched systems that's AHRI with a certified reference number as the one sent. Everything they quoted should apply for rebates needing to meet a minimum SEER and HSPF threshold.

    As long as a accurate load cal. was done if that's what it calls for ( 5 ton ) I'd be satisfied. You can also do your own free one to compare or purchase from online for a minimal fee as backup to compare.

    Here's one. http://www.loadcalc.net/

    The existing ductwork may need modifications to accommodate the larger tonnage higher SEER units. Have them check static pressure and get a commissioning report on your new system.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 06-02-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirSnoopy View Post
    Thanks all, for replies. This is so helpful. Here are the answers to the questions I saw.

    How did they come up with the tonnage? Two used the existing systems as a bench mark and their previous experience working on the house. One had put it in and the other had repaired several times. The third person did a Manual J. I will try to attach at the bottom of this thread.

    can your existing ductwork handle the extra ton? He mentioned the ductwork and did not seem concerned, but I guess I should explicitly ask.

    Amana unit and warranty? the 16 SEER Amana is a 2 stage. 10 year Amana parts and 99 year unit replacement warranty. 18 and 20 had the same warranty.

    Lennox unit number You are correct it was the XP25 for a heat pump

    House details
    Built 2006
    1st floor ~2300 SQ FT
    2nd floor ~800 SQ FT


    I do not know the wall insulation. I did not pay extra, so expect it is whatever builder grade is. Ceiling Blown insulation would estimate about 10 inches deep. Willing to pay for more insulation if needed. The 2nd floor does touch the roofline (so the same insulation of the walls) for about half of the ceiling.

    Manual J
    I could not get a link to work good.

    Upstairs
    Total Building area: 800 Sq ft
    Total Cooling Load: 17,128.4 BTUh
    Total Cooling tonnage: 1.4 tons
    Total Heating load: 15,185.1 BTUh
    Total airflow: 808.1 CFM

    Breakdown Cooling:
    Windows: 3969
    Envelope: 6932
    Infiltration: 517
    Internal gain: 1345
    Duct / blower heat gain: 3212
    Ventilation: 1152

    Also has the heating breakdown, but will hold off on that unless needed.

    Downstairs
    Total Building Area: 1600 Sq ft
    Total cooling load: 42,369.2 BTUh
    Total cooling tonnage: 3.5 tons
    Total heating load 43,580.6 BTUh
    Total airflow: 2008.2

    Breakdown cooling:
    Windows: 18358
    Envelope: 12289
    Infiltration: 658
    Internal gain: 2980
    Duct and blower heat gain: 5449
    Ventilation: 2633

    Again has the heating breakdown, but will hold off on that unless needed.


    Let me know your thoughts.
    1.
    3100 SQ FT vs.
    2400

    700 SqFt difference

    2. 3.5-Ton Normal air flow rate would be 1,260 to 1,400 CFM not 2,008.2 CFM

    3. I Never specify 5-ton systems for a residence.

    Say 30 tons total is Needed for 29,000 sq feet in South Florida
    _______________- I will use 3-tons x 10 with ~ 8 Dehumidifiers
    ___________________ vs 5-tons x 6.
    I like duct systems that adhere to the K.I.S.S. principle.
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 06-02-2019 at 01:37 PM.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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