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  1. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Here is the medication costs. Little number is the cost at Atlas. Big one is retail. Again the Atlas pricing is less than my copay in most examples. So everyone should think about this. If you are charged $15 for a prescription, and you can get it at Atlas for $4 that means the insurance company is actually making money when you think you are getting a great deal when you "only" pay that $15 copay. In some instances the insurance company is making a 500% profit on your $15 copay. They still make money while they tell you insurance saved you money.

    MEDICATION PRICING
    Pill # Generic Brand Atlas MD Wholesale

    100 Allopurinol 300 mg Lopurin/Zyloprin 5.00 64.50
    90 Amlodipine 10 mg Norvasc 2.50 155.00
    100 Amitriptyline HCL 10 mg Elavil 2.00 17.00
    100 Benazepril 20 mg Lotensin 6.00 105.00
    100 Bumetanide 1 mg Bumes 11.00 50.00
    60 Bupropion 150 mg SR Wellbutrin 20.00 174.00
    30 Bupropion 150 mg XL Wellbutrin 22.00 156.00
    100 Buspirone HCL 10 mg Buspar 5.00 134.00
    100 Cetirizine 10 mg Zyrtec 5.00 250.00
    100 Citalopram 20 mg Celexa 3.00 243.00
    100 Clonidine 0.1 mg Catapres 3.00 26.00
    100 Chlorzoxazone 500 mg Parafon 8.00 85.00
    100 Diclofenac Potassium Cataflam 50 mg 12.00 156.00
    100 Dicyclomine 20 mg Bentil 5.00 35.00
    100 Diltiazem 90 mg Cardiazem 8.00 101.00
    100 Estradiol 0.5 mg Estrace 4.00 25.00
    100 Fexofenadine 180 mg Allegra 36.00 49.00
    90 Finasteride 5 mg Proscar 22.00 280.00
    100 Fluoride Chew 0.5 Luride 5.00 14.00
    30 Fluconazole 100 mg Diflucan 4.00 265.00
    100 Fluoxetine 20 mg Prozac 3.00 266.00 1 Fluticasone Nasal Spray Flonase 21.00 84.32
    100 Gabapentin 300 mg Neurontin 10.0 132.00
    100 HTZ 25 mg Hydrodiuril 2.50 8.50
    100 Lisinopril 20 mg Prenovil/Zestril 4.00 106.00
    90 Levothyroxine 75 mcg Synthroid 11.00 30.00
    90 Levothyroxine 88 mcg Synthroid 11.00 30.00
    90 Levothyroxine 100 mcg Synthroid 11.00 30.00
    15 Loratadine D-24 Claritin D-24 7.00 11.00
    30 Losartan Potassium 25 mg Cozaar 3.00 67.00
    60 Lovastatin 40 mg Altocor/Mevacor 6.00 254.00
    90 Meloxicam 15 mg Mobic 3.00 425.00
    100 Metformin HCL 1000 mg Glucophage 5.00 144.00
    100 Metoprolol Tartrate 50 mg Lopressor 3.00 55.00
    30 Ondansetron 4 mg Zofran 7.00 710.00
    30 Ondansetron 4 mg ODT Zofran ODT 9.00 694.00
    100 Omeprazole 20 mg Prilosec 13.00 415.00
    100 Oxybutynin 5 mg Ditropan 4.00 56.00
    100 Pantoprazole Sodium 40 mg Protonix EC 10.00 368.00
    100 Prednisone 10 mg Prednisone 3.00 10.00
    90 Pravastatin 20 mg Pravachol 7.00 294.00
    100 Propanolol 40mg Inderal 3.00 69.00
    30 Sertraline 100 mg Zoloft 3.00 85.00
    90 Simvastin 20 mg Zocor 4.00 441.00
    90 Simvastin 40 mg Zocor 6.00 441.00 9 Sumatriptan Succinate 50 mg Imitrex 9.00 225.00 9 Sumatriptan Succinate 100 mg Imitrex 9.00 225.00
    100 Sulfamethox e/Tri 800/160 Bactrim DS 9.00 115.00
    90 Synthroid 75 mcg Synthroid 51.00 61.00
    100 Tamsulosin Hcl 0.4 mg Flomax 20.00 421.80
    60 Topiramate 25 mg Topamax 2.00 153.25
    60 Topiramate 50 mg Topamax 4.00 305.00
    30 Venlafaxine 75 mg Effexor 7.00 140.00
    100 Venlafaxine 100 mg Effexor 35.00 232.00
    30 Zolpidem 10 mg Ambien 1.00 300.00
    Your prices are not including the up-front $5,000/yr deposit.

  2. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Everything seems to devolve into healthcare debate... can we at least agree that the healthcare system we have now is a truly horrible value per dollar?

    Everyone keeps debating free-market vs single payer, when I see the issue being corruption. Liability corruption, bureaucratic corruption being the two most obvious. But I am sure there is more. Until the government/system is willing to take undo-profits from the ones currently scamming the american people... I don’t think single-payer vs free-market discussion even matters. To get either would take major changes that lobbyists would fight tooth and nail.
    This is, IMO, where the TRUE free market comes in:

    Folks have a financial stake in cost (pain motivates)... so they shop it!
    And guess what... the place that provides the best value gets more business, while the place that provides less value goes broke... which is the way it is supposed to be!

    Govt always screws that up...
    Less govt allows it to work!

    Problem is... folks are willing to let the govt screw it up... if they think they are gonna get a freebee...

    There is more than enough proof that medical costs can be low, and the clinic make a reasonable profit...
    WITHOUT endless govt control!

    Why we do not let this grow... is a question that should be answered!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

  3. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    This is, IMO, where the TRUE free market comes in:

    Folks have a financial stake in cost (pain motivates)... so they shop it!
    And guess what... the place that provides the best value gets more business, while the place that provides less value goes broke... which is the way it is supposed to be!

    Govt always screws that up...
    Less govt allows it to work!

    Problem is... folks are willing to let the govt screw it up... if they think they are gonna get a freebee...

    There is more than enough proof that medical costs can be low, and the clinic make a reasonable profit...
    WITHOUT endless govt control!

    Why we do not let this grow... is a question that should be answered!
    Is the govt screwing up when they regulate the cost of electricity? Or when they regulate mega-mergers? Or regulate the Stock Market?

    The govt could fix healthcare but the Republicans will have no part of it because they are obsessed with the free-market. Well, should Nascar officials get out of the way of the drivers and not mandate restrictor-plates? To have a free and open race track?

  4. #355
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    I agree a true and completely free-market system would reduce prices.

    But this would take government action... government action that would leave many without care who currently have it. And probably more notibly leave many without profit who are currently profiting.

  5. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    I agree a true and completely free-market system would reduce prices.

    But this would take government action... government action that would leave many without care who currently have it. And probably more notibly leave many without profit who are currently profiting.
    The free-market only works for small ticket items like tv's and orthodontia. Not for emergency appendectomies. As long as we need an insurance company to foot that big bill, we will never care if that surgery costs $15,000 or $35,000. But non-profit, govt regulated Medicare cares and dictates what it costs.

    When has the free-market ever affected the cost of an appendectomy?

  6. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Everything seems to devolve into healthcare debate... can we at least agree that the healthcare system we have now is a truly horrible value per dollar?

    Everyone keeps debating free-market vs single payer, when I see the issue being corruption. Liability corruption, bureaucratic corruption being the two most obvious. But I am sure there is more. Until the government/system is willing to take undo-profits from the ones currently scamming the american people... I don’t think single-payer vs free-market discussion even matters. To get either would take major changes that lobbyists would fight tooth and nail.
    Name for me a free market system where the consumer is in charge that there is widespread corruption?

    And is there any chance in hell a USA federally run single payer system wouldn't be swimming in corruption as bad as we have now? Could it be prevented in a million years? Please explain how you could EVER keep corruption out..
    Also, is there any corruption at Altas MD or Sugury Center Of Oklahoma? Or any other similar free market provider.

    Also, if one of those places did devolve into a swamp of corruption, wouldn't people simple stop going?

    I'm so shocked how many people here(some very intelligent) just don't get it.

  7. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I could not drop my primary insurance, which is $800/mo. I'd have to sign onto Atlas at an addition $400/mo. Now I'm up to $1,200/mo. How is that lowering my healthcare costs? I'd rather pocket the $400 and accumulate the $5,000/yr.

    Your math never makes sense to me. Until Atlas or Surgery Center of OK can completely replace Health Net, I need my primary insurance.

    BTW - Why is Atlas only an opportunity for me? Why doesn't it look appealing to you?
    Why CAN'T you drop your primary insurance?

  8. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Your prices are not including the up-front $5,000/yr deposit.
    Up front? It's monthly.

  9. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Name for me a free market system where the consumer is in charge that there is widespread corruption?

    And is there any chance in hell a USA federally run single payer system wouldn't be swimming in corruption as bad as we have now? Could it be prevented in a million years? Please explain how you could EVER keep corruption out..
    Also, is there any corruption at Altas MD or Sugury Center Of Oklahoma? Or any other similar free market provider.

    Also, if one of those places did devolve into a swamp of corruption, wouldn't people simple stop going?

    I'm so shocked how many people here(some very intelligent) just don't get it.
    What you refuse to address is that the free market only works when folks pay cash for their purchase. When will people pay cash for an appendectomy?

  10. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Up front? It's monthly.
    Up front means they get their $5,000/yr first. Then you may or may not get those prices on drugs, etc...if you need them.

  11. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Is the govt screwing up when they regulate the cost of electricity? Or when they regulate mega-mergers? Or regulate the Stock Market?

    The govt could fix healthcare but the Republicans will have no part of it because they are obsessed with the free-market. Well, should Nascar officials get out of the way of the drivers and not mandate restrictor-plates? To have a free and open race track?
    Electricity is a simple formula.

    1 KWH= $?

    No openings for major corruption.

    There are way too many openings for corruption to seep its way in to the medical field. The medical field is vast. From doctors salaries, to medical supplies, pharmacies, PA's, nurses, orderlies, Medicare, Medicaid, EMTs, counselors, to the guy that orders the nytril gloves, security at the main entrance to the janitorial staff, etc

    Also, do you think we could get much better rates if there were 100 electric companies to choose from? We need government regulation and oversight with the electric company. There is only one set of power lines.

    The other examples you listed are things that are done behind closed doors out of sight and control of the consumer. We aren't there in the rooms when a small handful of bankers and Wall St executives are making decisions that affect our lives. That's why government does unfortunately need to be out eyes.

    Government control and regulation is the best bad solution to when and where consumers can't control a market. And it should never be used when we can. Because we do a much better job.

  12. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    What you refuse to address is that the free market only works when folks pay cash for their purchase. When will people pay cash for an appendectomy?
    I'd like to point out to you and everyone that these questions have been asked and answered a dozen times. The answers don't fit your closed mind, so you ask again.

    You are stuck on hatred of the private free market for some strange reason. As a consumer, what product have you ever purchased that you are pissed about? The main ones I can think of are healthcare and public education. And I'm sorry to bust your bubble, the electric bill really pisses me off too.

    But can you name anotjer product that isn't deeply regulated and controlled?

    But to your question. Like I've said a dozen or more times. First off you would have providers competing in the free market for satisfied customers. So the cost would drop to 30% or 40% of what it costs now. Second, an HSA with $5k or $10k in it goes a long way. Third, the entire market now moving to a free market system would be FORCED to disclose prices. So even if a major surgery is $20k and only $5k comes from your HSA and the other $15k comes from you cheap catastrophic plan, you will still shop for value. It's natural that you will pick the lowest price of the 10 or 50 providers who retain a great reputation. And these guys will constantly be working to get those prices lower and lower while at the same time improving the product.

    But what you need to understand is what I stated above happens naturally. You don't have to do a thing. It's done magically for you. It controls and regulates itself like the tides.

  13. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Why CAN'T you drop your primary insurance?
    You conveniently didn't answer this question unless I missed it.

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