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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    Winterized what? Closing the isolation valve and opened the drains down stream may be winterizing the chiller but not the piping. I am in Iowa and the number of frozen coils and such from the very cold winter we just had was waaaaay higher than it ever has been in anyone’s memory.

    you need to winterize the piping too!
    I hear ya! We've had more frozen coils this winter than any other previous year I've been around.
    -----Stop, step back, relax and have another go at it.-----

  2. #28
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  3. #29
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    lzenglish, let’s assume that freezing wasn’t the root cause of this failure, and that possibly what people are seeing as obvious freeze damage occurred after the initial failure.

    What then could be the root cause, and how can that be determined?

    How would you go about analyzing the parts for corrosion, manufacturing defects or stress unrelated to freezing?
    It's an upside down world we live in.

  4. #30
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    David you are not going to get an answer to that question from him.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Goodman View Post
    lzenglish, let’s assume that freezing wasn’t the root cause of this failure, and that possibly what people are seeing as obvious freeze damage occurred after the initial failure.

    What then could be the root cause, and how can that be determined?

    How would you go about analyzing the parts for corrosion, manufacturing defects or stress unrelated to freezing?
    a better question would be to ask him how to measure Discharge Superheat........his head will prolly explode!

  6. Likes BennyD, BALloyd liked this post
  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Goodman View Post
    lzenglish, let’s assume that freezing wasn’t the root cause of this failure, and that possibly what people are seeing as obvious freeze damage occurred after the initial failure.

    What then could be the root cause, and how can that be determined?

    How would you go about analyzing the parts for corrosion, manufacturing defects or stress unrelated to freezing?
    Hey David: Now in keeping with my promise to Dad, and the Mods, i WAS going to let this go, BUT, since the USUAL 2 Bottom Feeders want to throw rocks, let me explain: First Off, I did Not say that Freeze was not the Culpert here, i said the cause of the strainer casting failure was Questionable in My Mind, (in other words of course). I have seen way too many of these want to be experts, such as chops and wayne throw out all these end of story facts, just for sake of argument. Now if they said it was likely, or in their opinion, i would accept that answer. The fact of the matter is this, I have installed, operated, and repaired many, many chillers, from 100 tons to 3000 tons, in my 45 years in this business, and i don't buy "Just any BS", "Without all the Facts of the Matter IN Front of ME", which we do not have.. I indicated that i see a misalignment of the top spool, and that the strainers did have what appears to be a casting failure. THAT's ALL We Know for Sure at this point in time, but these 2 turds want to impress the young boys here, so they start throwing out unknown facts. What are the unknown facts you ask? Did this chiller have water treatment with freeze protection, like "EVERY Chiller" I have Ever Maintained, ie.(glycol)? Was/Is the pipe spool misaligned as it looks to be? ("Did the Tube Bundle Freeze as well")???? etc., etc. Now lastly, i have never drained a chiller, or a tower for winter, as chilled water is needed 365 days a year, 24-7 for temperature and humidity control, (depending on building needs from customer! Now this has to be the last of the last comment for me on this stupid childish subject, as i respect this forum, and am trying to tone my emotions down for all. Take Care. PS: Ok kids, push the BAN Button Now, and Continue the rock throwing, as I have some Memorial Day Services to Attend to now..

  8. #33
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    I could accept everything you say if you would just answer my question.....are you or are you not our previously banned “guru”?

    If not than, that’s great! If you are, then I still have zero respect for you. The fact that you’ve avoided the question, makes me think you are him....I’m just sayin.

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  10. #34
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    If you want to know Mr. Buzzard what turned this discussion where it should never had gone read your post #13. You shot your mouth off without any understanding off pipe stress analyses. I have a lot of years experience doing pipe stress analyses from cryogenics to super heated steam and have dealt with millions of pounds of forces in piping systems both small and large diameter. I never said there was no casting failure nor did I eliminate stress corrosion or chemical corrosion as possible contributors. I have been responsible for doing stress analyses on entire electrical power plants with the responsibility of making sure and proving no failures will occur under normal operation conditions. That doesn't make me an expert because it isn't that difficult it is just time consuming.
    There was no argument until you got way out of line and tried to come off as an expert in an area you know nothing about. You can get along here by simply respecting the fact that everyone that contributes to a post is expressing what they believe. If someone is wrong point it out but do it with facts not your own arrogant opinion of yourself.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  12. #35
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    Wayne says way back in post #7, that it was his opinion yet you sit here not accepting it contrary to what you just posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by lzenglish View Post
    Hey David: Now in keeping with my promise to Dad, and the Mods, i WAS going to let this go, BUT, since the USUAL 2 Bottom Feeders want to throw rocks, let me explain: First Off, I did Not say that Freeze was not the Culpert here, i said the cause of the strainer casting failure was Questionable in My Mind, (in other words of course). I have seen way too many of these want to be experts, such as chops and wayne throw out all these end of story facts, just for sake of argument. Now if they said it was likely, or in their opinion, i would accept that answer. The fact of the matter is this, I have installed, operated, and repaired many, many chillers, from 100 tons to 3000 tons, in my 45 years in this business, and i don't buy "Just any BS", "Without all the Facts of the Matter IN Front of ME", which we do not have.. I indicated that i see a misalignment of the top spool, and that the strainers did have what appears to be a casting failure. THAT's ALL We Know for Sure at this point in time, but these 2 turds want to impress the young boys here, so they start throwing out unknown facts. What are the unknown facts you ask? Did this chiller have water treatment with freeze protection, like "EVERY Chiller" I have Ever Maintained, ie.(glycol)? Was/Is the pipe spool misaligned as it looks to be? ("Did the Tube Bundle Freeze as well")???? etc., etc. Now lastly, i have never drained a chiller, or a tower for winter, as chilled water is needed 365 days a year, 24-7 for temperature and humidity control, (depending on building needs from customer! Now this has to be the last of the last comment for me on this stupid childish subject, as i respect this forum, and am trying to tone my emotions down for all. Take Care. PS: Ok kids, push the BAN Button Now, and Continue the rock throwing, as I have some Memorial Day Services to Attend to now..
    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  13. #36
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    I, for one, am not learning anything about chiller pipe failure at this point.

    Forensic examination of flange failure could be very useful, but we aren’t going in that direction.
    It's an upside down world we live in.

  14. #37
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    Is there any left ?
    The toy chest is officially full ... I got a new toy..... 2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage and yes it still gives me goosebumps
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    In the new big shop , greasin', oilin' . tweakin' n shinin' !!

  15. #38
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    David I did address the failure of the flange and it is very important how it failed. Look at how it cracked apart at the top bolt. That tells you the direction of the force which is the most solid indication of what happened.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    David I did address the failure of the flange and it is very important how it failed. Look at how it cracked apart at the top bolt. That tells you the direction of the force which is the most solid indication of what happened.
    Wayne, thanks for re-engaging.

    Looking at the third picture down, there is a chunk of the flange stuck to the insulation, it looks like it came from area of the bolt in the 9 O’clock position. The broken surface is still shiny with little or no corrosion compared with the break in the strainer body.

    Is that at all significant in determining the order of events in the failure?

    The photos are a bit grainy. So, I’m not sure I can see what your are referring to at the top bolt.
    It's an upside down world we live in.

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