Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes

    Confused Big Decision - Am Std/Trane Full variable VS. Variable handler and single stage

    Hi Guys - Newbie homeowner looking at a big decision. I have a 3300 sq foot house, 1 level ranch in Connecticut. I've had 6 quotes, and many different configs noted.

    My ideal is a heat pump solution that would work down to roughly freezing level and will rely on my existing oil hydronic system for primary heat below that. Basically a dual fuel setup. My hot water is oil today as well (possibly hybrid heat pump in future).

    The quotes I've gotten have been all over the map, some want to go with 2 units 5 ton and 1.5, others with a single zoned 5 ton system, which is my preference for cost and long term simplicity.

    Best #s for single system 3 zones with new trunk lines are from reputable local place as follows:

    Full variable option - Platinum 20 5 ton / Tam9 air handler - $. This would be the cutting edge rocket ship, but I'm concerned about reliability with variable stage and communicating system. Simple is better. Plus side is it would heaat down to 17 degrees at nearly full capacity.

    Xl16i / Tem6 - $. This is single stage compressor and variable air handler. Simpler, non-communicating but BTU output drops to 33000 at 17 deg. At 32, does that put me in the 45k BTU output range? And could the system ever heat reasonably with only 45k output or will I have to set my low limit to 40 or something to avoid fail over to aux strips (which I would never use obv.)

    Is there anything in between these options? or should I not be worried about reliability on the full variable system - as long as installed properly it should be good?

    Finally - what do you think of those prices?

    Thanks in advance! Josh
    Last edited by BaldLoonie; 05-20-2019 at 12:09 PM. Reason: removed pricing per site policy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Likes
    How about starting with this free site, http://www.loadcalc.net/

    Speaking with some observations as a 40+ year Contractor, with just as long servicing/Installing HP systems and also residing in Ct. I have baseboard oil with a tankless domestic hot water coil, ( finally broke down after 15 years and bought a indirect tank, for my hot water, I'll have to get around to installing that in the summer ) and a 15 year old 12 SEER heat pump. If you never had a Heat Pump before, just my opinion, I would put in a simpler system 14-16 SEER then manually or I'm sure they can wire it using a OD stat to change over as a Hybrid. Mine is manual ( it's on my bucket list make it switch automatically to do someday ) You may not like the cooler air temperatures over time.

    As a Contractor who serviced, helped install HP with a oil or gas Furnace over the years in Ct. found many homeowners after the years passed running the HP, maybe they got tired of the long run times, noisy defrost sounds, cooler air temperatures, just ran the oil or gas in winter, guess they liked that warm heat.

    Need to figure in a heat source when unit goes into defrost mode, such as electric heat unless you don't mind the cold air for a few minutes while in defrost.

    Make sure they install AHRI matched systems, ask them about possible rebates if you go with higher SEER systems. Make sure whatever you decide on equipment to register it as manufacturer warranty decreases significantly if not registered.

    Anyway that's my worth...
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 05-20-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    40,756
    Post Likes
    I wouldn't do the variable speed outdoor units without zoning as there can be airflow issues with 1 big zone when the unit throttles to a low capacity. There isn't the air velocity to get air to distant rooms. Especially if the blower is in the basement feeding floors above it.

    Unless money is no object, a practical option is XR16 with the TEM6. That will leave you lots of money to do other home improvements like insulation that will have a lot faster payback than higher SEER equipment. One thing you do have to look at is HSPF. That's the SEER rating in heat mode. Sometimes a unit will have a nice high SEER but have a HSPF rating that's pretty low.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Bazooka Joey - Thanks very much for the quick input! I've really wanted to do heat pump but the tradeoffs (cooler air temp or ability to keep up at all to a reasonable balance point) may be less than desirable, especially for my wife! Add to that the complexity of full variable and greater likelihood of repair calls, sounds like my TCO would not be much better unless/until oil really skyrockets in price. Thanks!

    Baldloonie - Again thanks! Do you know a rough $$ differential to expect between XR and XL 16? I'm leaning away from HP now so would likely look at XR16/TEM6 with best SEER combination and 2 or 3 zones.

    Looks like if I go AC only there's no difference in SEER on the XR15/TEM6 as well. 15/12.5

    What is better if anything about the higher XR or the XL16i in the first place if the SEER outcome is the same?

    Also - any thoughts on difference between AmStd and Trane, my installer rep indicates the Trane service is better but has said feel free to make the choice either way.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Baldloonie - Thank You! Do you know a rough $$ differential to expect between XR and XL 16? I'm leaning away from HP now so would likely look at XR16/TEM6 with best SEER combination and 2 or 3 zones.

    Looks like if I go AC only there's no difference in SEER on the XR15/TEM6 as well. 15/12.5

    What is better if anything about the higher XR or the XL16i in the first place if the SEER outcome is the same?

    Also - any thoughts on difference between AmStd and Trane, my installer rep indicates the Trane service is better but has said feel free to make the choice either way.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    40,756
    Post Likes
    Prices vary greatly between dealers and geographic areas. No call for 16 SEER here so they are pretty price. Lots cheaper in a hot climate.

    Only way to know is get prices on the different models from local dealers.

    Service varies. Here, our American Standard distributor is amazing. Even had the factory owned Trane Supply tech rep tell me to call them for help on a Trane as they know more

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Got it. Thanks! Are you aware of there are any major differences between like seer rated systems whether XR or XL series?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Any differences to you knowledge in the Am Std and Trane distributors serving CT? I'm in Woodbridge in greater New Haven area. Thx

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Likes
    Ask bidding Contractors for this as an example, will give you the SEER and EER, and total cooling BTU as the ID selection determines SEER not OD section. You would need the AHRI number for possible rebates and it will make sure the bidding Contractors are proposing matching systems.


    https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/D...voD12z0YkwLjj6

    https://www.energizect.com/sites/def...019-03-WEB.pdf

    Ct. Rebates page 2 shows amounts:
    Last edited by Bazooka Joey; 05-20-2019 at 03:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Chico, Ca #StateofJefferson
    Posts
    1,855
    Post Likes
    If you do heat pumps down that low in temp then contractors are likely to size the equipment for heating. This could oversize the ac side of it come summer and leave you with humidity problems. With a home that large I'd do two smaller units vs one big unit with zoning. Reasons are it's very hard to find companies that will even do ducting correctly let alone zoning. Smaller tonnage models get higher efficiency numbers and redundancy. Most relaxed customers I've seen in a hot/cold snap are people with two systems. They are inconvenienced, not stressed out of their gourd by heat and humidity. Two basic heatpumps will keep complexity to a minimum while keeping comfort, reliability and efficiency high. But first find out with a manual j how much heating and cooling the house needs!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Appreciate that Bazooka, I have collected several of the system configs from AHRI site previously (but had not seen the CT rebates- a bit paltry but I won't qualify at 15 SEER anyway)

    What I don't quite understand is that several of the system combinations specifically XR15, XR16 and XL16i have nearly identical SEER and EER ratings in the TEM6 or similar config. What is the actual difference between these outside condensor units?

    They yield the same efficiency in the 5 ton config and all are single stage, so are they just a bit different under the hood - and if so, is it a meaningful difference? It appears in lower tonnage some get higher SEER ratings so that perhaps is the only diff (oh and XL16i has a nice Trane weather proof top or something).

    Thanks

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Likes
    I'm not a Trane dealer so I don't know exactly what the standard features are of those three model you mentioned in post 11. Suffice to say each says " up to " the XR15 up to 16 SEER the XR16 up to 17 SEER, the XL16i up to 18 depending on ID selection. Says the XL16i has a variable speed OD motor, guessing other two have the tried and true PSC.

    As examples, one model may come with both a high and low refrigerant pressure switch, another model just the low, or just the high, one may have a compressor sound blanket the others not or different compressors. I would go to the Trane web site and look at the standard features for starters. The bidding Contractor should be able to tell you exactly what is under the hood of each model, or with help from their Trane distributor. To me that's the least they can do for you in order to close the deal.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    40,756
    Post Likes
    At a guess I'd say the XL16i has a constant torque ECM. Pretty rare except in VS unit to have the fan motor vary.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Contracting Business
HPAC Engineering
EC&M
CONTRACTOR