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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Cold Climate Whole House Heat Pump

    I'm in the market for a new HVAC system for a 3600sqft house in Massachusetts. My current system is oil heated hydro air and central AC (3ton and 4ton units). I'm interested in a whole house heat pump solution that utilizes the current ducting. Supposing I need to keep the hydro air as a backup system, what cold climate whole house heat pump system should I be exploring?

    Lastly, I've had 4 local companies quote the job and none of them performed a manual J calculation for sizing. They ALL just went with the 3 and 4 ton sizing of my cooling system. Does this jive with you?

    Thank you for your input.

    Keith

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Chico, Ca #StateofJefferson
    Posts
    502
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    All replacements must start with a manual J to determine what size is needed. Lazy or untrained people will give excuses as to why they won’t do them, which is playing with your money. People guessing with my money has never jived with me, how about you? Where I live, your probably looking at a Honda Accord worth of money so make them earn it.

    If it’s dropping below freezing in your area I’d recommend duel fuel. Otherwise the equipment may have to be sized even larger to give you the heating capacity and it may not dehumidify well during the summer. Manual J, S and D should be performed since it looks like they used a rule of thumb to originally size the equipment

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    39,792
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    There are high end units from Mitsubiishi and other mini split makers that can used with a conventional air handler. A unit like a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat heats very well even below zero. Many of the usual name splits with a high SEER heat pump doesn't do any better heating, in capacity or efficiency, than a mid SEER model.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    6,979
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    Carrier green speed.
    I would recommend against the 5 stage inverters, as they will not turn on below 5 degrees.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    9,036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brymar View Post

    I'm in the market for a new HVAC system for a
    _ _ _ 3600 Sq Ft house in Massachusetts.

    My current system is oil heated hydro air and central AC (3ton and 4ton units).
    I'm interested in a whole house heat pump solution that utilizes the current ducting.

    Supposing I need to keep the hydro air as a backup system,
    what cold climate whole house heat pump system should I be exploring?

    Lastly, I've had 4 local companies quote the job and none of them performed a manual J calculation for sizing. They ALL just went with the 3 and 4 ton sizing of my cooling system. Does this jive with you?

    Thank you for your input.

    Keith
    WSHP = Water Source Heat Pump

    _ _ + + it depends on whether the house was built in 2009 or 1909.
    ________________________________________ 4 tons or 12 tons


    2019 Build = 3 tons TOTAL HOUSE
    _______________ … ________________ __________
    so I guess some specifics may get you on
    THIS WINDING PATH
    that is known as ACCA MANUALS J, S & D Calculations
    ___ = Required ROOM- BY - ROOM if you wish to get
    close to a Reasonable Solution THE FIRST TIME
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    9,036
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    AGE - built in 1994 / ___ ?

    ZIP _ _ _ _ _

    Double or Single Pane
    Argon or Air filled ___

    # OF WINDOWS in each direction
    N
    S
    E
    West

    Wall Height : ~8'

    Perimeter

    i.e. 53 x 30 …
    ___ 166 feet … * 8 = 1400 sq feet of wall area per floor

    # of stories: Two, I presume
    ________ 1,800 SF Each
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    30,547
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    Hmmmm. A heat pump in a cold climate?

    If your use of the word "hydro" in place of "electric" means you are from Canada (like my father) then you might like a cool house, which is generally what you get with a heat pump, due to the lower vent temps.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,937
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    I think his term was "oil heated hydro" - so I'm thinking boiler rather than electric.

    Did your father's term for electric result from water-powered electrical generating? If so; I have never heard it before.

    I guess it's like referring to the electric bill as: The Light Bill. <g>

    PHM
    ---------


    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Hmmmm. A heat pump in a cold climate?

    If your use of the word "hydro" in place of "electric" means you are from Canada (like my father) then you might like a cool house, which is generally what you get with a heat pump, due to the lower vent temps.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I think his term was "oil heated hydro" - so I'm thinking boiler rather than electric.

    Did your father's term for electric result from water-powered electrical generating? If so; I have never heard it before.

    I guess it's like referring to the electric bill as: The Light Bill. <g>

    PHM
    ---------
    That is where it comes from.
    I’ve got a buddy in Alberta who calls it the hydro company. Explained it was due to the hydro electric system.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    71
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    I’m from Quebec/Canada. Hydro-Quebec is the electric company here. Hydro for hydro-electricity.
    To answer the question, i personnally own a York YHM and heat all winter long with it. I don’t need aux heat until 10F.
    Hydronic coil is the best aux heat you can use with a heatpump because you can heat with both below your balance point (except for electric heat strips but could cost $$$ depending of electricity cost)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,937
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    I notice that you all speak a weird version of French up there. A fair number of French speaking Canadians seem to come to southwest Florida in the winter and it's all I can do to barely make out what they are saying. <g>

    Now admittedly: je parle un peu français - but damn! <g>


    Quote Originally Posted by bertqc View Post
    I’m from Quebec/Canada . . .
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
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    I speak "un peu" as well. Montreal was a challenge, since my dad is from Nelson, BC. Not a lot of French spoken there.

    Everyone I know in Canada uses the word "Hydro" for the name of the electric company.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    you all speak a weird version of French up there.
    At least we use PSI, not BAR.
    If i could afford being a snowbird you’d see me near south florida as well!!

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