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  1. #1
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    Flash Gas Condenser

    Has anyone seen this product / company around? https://www.reihlenergy.com/

    It looks like they just use a lot of mumbo jumbo to sound scientific and it's just another black box (an actual black plastic box) that doesn't do anything. If I'm understanding flash-gas, there's some kind of issue in the system that needs to be corrected rather than covering it up with this thing. Any thoughts? Their slide deck is attached.
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  2. #2
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    I'm in a hurry - but this:

    "Our direct contact technology uses PCM to remove the heat absorbed by the refrigerant when forced thru the TEV, condensing it back to a liquid. By the time the refrigerant makes it completely thru the PCM Chamber, the refrigerant tubing is completely filled with liquid and the increased volume delivered to the evaporator dramatically increases the heat removal from the space."

    sounds to me so far like it better utilize a large accumulator. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  3. #3
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    "...remove the heat absorbed by the refrigerant"

    Now how would that happen?

    In a condenser.

    So it's a mini condenser????
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  4. #4
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    The heat from being forced through the TXV, wasn't it?

    PHM
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    "...remove the heat absorbed by the refrigerant"

    Now how would that happen?

    In a condenser.

    So it's a mini condenser????
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #5
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    No; from the description words it seemed to be something installed after the TXV and before the evaporator. Talking about removing the heat absorbed After the refrigerant was forced through the TXV and returning it to a liquid to better "fill the evaporator".

    But in their drawing it is between the condenser and the TXV - so it's only suction would be as a sub cooler (well unless it re-aligns the refrigerant molecules or something <g>) I wonder how it gets the heat out of the liquid refrigerant AND what it does with the removed heat? Where does the removed heat go?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  6. #6
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    But it says “science”. That means it has to be true. Plus it’s on the internet so there’s no denying it.

    It’s using mumbo jumbo that might fool a tech school student.
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  7. #7
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    Did you notice the copywrite date at the bottom of their webpage. It is 2023. They must be from the future. I am pretty sure this is the year 2019. I wonder if their company was formed on April 1st.

    One source indicates that this alleged company is in Flint, Michigan.

    What else do we see going on in Flint, Michigan?
    It's an upside down world we live in.

  8. #8
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    You may be interested to know that the explanation as to where the heat being removed from the refrigerant goes is this:

    "The PCM absorbs and releases heat concurrently. During one part of the cycle, the PCM absorbs the heat from the refrigerant and at another part of the cycle the refrigerant is absorbing the heat from the PCM and rejecting at the condenser."
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    You may be interested to know that the explanation as to where the heat being removed from the refrigerant goes is this:

    "The PCM absorbs and releases heat concurrently. During one part of the cycle, the PCM absorbs the heat from the refrigerant and at another part of the cycle the refrigerant is absorbing the heat from the PCM and rejecting at the condenser."
    Yes, the Flash Gas Condenser (FGC) contains a PCM or "phase change material". This is what we commonly call a "eutectic solution" which has a relatively low freezing point. similar to what you would find in Dole cold plates typically used for ice cream trucks to freeze the eutectic at night and keep the truck cold as it melts during the day...ie, a holdover plate. The same type of material is used in those cold packs you put in the freezer overnight and then they can keep your picnic cooler cold the whole day.

    The difference here is these FGCs, which are a 6"x 8"x 2", box hardly have enough eutectic to store any significant amount of "cold" to essentially chill the refrigerant liquid flow after the TXV to any great degree. Then I would ask just where in the normal refrigeration cycle would the PCM be re-freezing its phase change material?

    Here's a link to the FGC installation instructions:

    https://www.reihlenergy.com/installation-instructions

    The first thing said is to adjust the evaporator superheat to 17F-19F. What's up with that? Isn't this simply recreating the flash gas at the outlet of the evaporator which they say they eliminated at the inlet? A 19F superheat leaves a lot of the evaporator surface doing nothing, so that right there is not very good for the coil efficiency.

    Another thing you have to do is remove the distributor nozzle. Again, what's the reasoning behind this? Is it because the FGC has such a high pressure drop through it that you can't use a distributor nozzle? According to Sporlan, a typical nozzle for R404A would be sized for a 25 psi drop and R410A a 35 psi drop. So is the FGC essentially just creating a similar pressure drop? Hmm...?

    In the link posted above by the OP, they say this: "The FGC converts the flash gas produced by the heat created by the pressure drop of the refrigerant passing through the TXV/Orifice into liquid before entering the evaporator". It is commonly known that it's the pressure drop itself that causes the liquid to flash to a vapor through the TXV, not heat. Thermodynamically, the enthalpy or heat content of the refrigerant doesn't change during the expansion process. The enthalpy change...ie, heat exchange, doesn't happen until the evaporator.

    In another section of the website it says the liquid line size of the system determines "how many" FGC's you need to install. A 3/8" liquid line calls for one FGC. For 1/2" you would need two an on up to 1⅛" which requires 10 FGC's installed. According to the instructions, multiple units are to be installed in a "daisy chain", which must be high tech talk for "in series".

    Why do I see before me what appears to be the ghost of the XDX???

  10. #10
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    The verbal description calls for the unit to be installed between the TXV and the evaporator. The diagram on their website shows the unit installed between the condenser and the TXV. I better ask them about that.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    The verbal description calls for the unit to be installed between the TXV and the evaporator. The diagram on their website shows the unit installed between the condenser and the TXV. I better ask them about that.
    Do you mean this diagram? I think that must be the receiver, although it's not labeled as such.


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