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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Turtleman View Post
    X2

  2. #28
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    Jul 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    Sandshark,

    I'll tell you this much though, I'm not a big chain restaurant at all, I'm pretty much a one hit facility. You just gotta keep pushing.

    Can't say much for that warranty call, if you had the right filtration in it I would assume they couldn't do that, was that not sufficient to their standards?

    Call them, keep calling them until you get what you want, I had to do that many times, I'm known in my office for being the guy that calls manufacturers and gets them to replace whatever it is they messed up on.

    As a welder, kitchen tech, refrigeration dude, plumbing guy, electrician and so on, I've done a lot, I've built some stuff to Danish standards (lol) and it's still going and the kitchen i service is notorious for breaking anything with flaws, if it's not built to last, it won't last here. Guaranteed.

    Just bought 5 racks from channel, destroyed in the first 3 months.

    I built 4, going strong after 3 years.

    Having the experience, I know what's right and wrong and if you know within yourself that you've been wronged, then they tend to give you what you want, if you aren't 100% committed or certain that it's their flaw, I tend to not get what I want. It's funny but that's how I've experienced it.

    I can give you the email to the technical service manager for Welbilt ovens, he's a bit higher up than your first line of defense, he's the one who sent me all the stuff. If you want.
    I'm a one man show for the school district kitchens. Right now I've got 5 kitchens, with one kitchen being built at this moment in a new elementary school that opens in August. Like you, I do it all, too.

    Over the years, even before I arrived on the commercial kitchen scene, when I was an HVAC/R technician, I contacted several manufacturers about chronic component failures, so this isn't my first rodeo. Our equipment salesman is very aware of the issues we've been having over the years. He already had a relationship with the Director of Nutrition Services (my boss) before I got here, so I bite my tongue when he's around since she seems to believe almost everything he tells her. I know better because I've interacted with him about equipment issues and, based on some of the responses I've gotten, I know he doesn't know as much about the equipment as he would lead you to believe, especially on the technical side. I've let the failures speak for themselves, so I think he and she are finally seeing that Welbilt isn't all it's cracked up to be.

    Back in the day, the company I worked for sold Lennox equipment. Their headquarters is in Dallas. During that time, Lennox would send several of their R&D team down. They would bring equipment with them for us to install at customer's businesses, free of charge. Over the next few years, they would return several times to inspect the equipment to see how it was performing and holding up. They even installed several different types of fasteners on the equipment to see which ones held up better to the weather, which can be hard on equipment here along the Gulf coast. That's how meticulous they were about their products. These days, it seems manufacturers are putting their final products in the field and letting the chips fall where they may as far as reliability and dependability. The customers are their guinea pigs.

    I'll just keep on keeping on and do my job to the best of my ability. If it breaks, I'll repair it. It's job security, right? Anyway, I'll be retiring in a couple of years, so I'll let the next technician deal with this stuff. When you reach my age, you learn to pick your battles, losing a few along the way with hopes that you'll eventually win the war. At least that's what I tell myself.
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

  3. Likes VanMan812 liked this post
  4. #29
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    Sandshark,

    Well there ya go, It makes sense.

    It's unfortunate but I guess it's how it is these days.

    There's just a point I get to where I can't let it slide, perhaps that's cause I am younger, don't know.

  5. #30
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    Jul 2002
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    Thread Starter
    What do you know? I got a response from Welbilt (Delfield). Responses are in bold.

    2 - Manitowoc Nugget Ice Machines. Failures were complete evaporator assemblies (000012319) in both of the machines and a gear motor assembly (000011126) in one of the machines. Another of our nugget machines is "growling" and I expect it to fail soon. In case you are wondering, the machines are cleaned and sanitized as outlined in the service literature and the water filters are changed as needed. All of these machines are less than 3-years-old. I will copy Manitowoc Ice on this as we do not handle Ice machines here at Delfield



    2 - Delfield Serving Line low wattage food wells with heat pads (3234798). After speaking with technical support, I learned that these particular wells, unlike conventional calrod heated wells, are not serviceable and the complete well needs replaced in the event of a heat pad failure. These two failures occurred within 6 months of each other on serving lines that are less than 4-years-old. You are correct these units have a vulcanized heater to ensure that the product maintains the proper temp being they are 500 watt vs the old 1000 watt cal rod heaters Do you have a sn# of the unit? What is the voltage at the unit? Do you possibly still have the wells ?



    On a smaller expense scale, we seem to be losing a lot of Danfoss 077F8529 (ETP R1) blue LED temperature displays on our refrigerated roll-ins and pass-throughs. The major issue with these displays is the fact that the LED numbers are partially failing and making it difficult to read the proper temperature. I was told by technical support that these failures are caused by water or moisture. I informed the support person that the displays have never seen a drop of water. Oddly enough, we haven't had any failures of the red LED temperature displays on our heated roll-ins and pass-throughs. Moisture and grease cause the most damage to our controls, around 50% of the “Failed” controls that are returned to us have water damage on them. Getting the controls wet can even cause the display to fail due to wires and components shorting out. How old are the units that are having the issues? We used that Danfoss control exclusively across our entire range of products for 10+ years without any issues up until a couple years ago. The only reason we switched to a different type control is due the tightened DOE changes.



    Finally, on an even smaller expense scale, we lose a lot of 2190154 rocker switches. I buy them five at a time because they fail so often. These switches have been used here for 15-20 years and we have had good luck with them. I am not sure what units you have them on but if it the prep tables there are 2 on each unit. If it is the rail switches failing I would make sure the louver is not hitting them. If it is the base “Main” power switch that is failing I would double check the amp draw on the unit to make sure there this is not causing them to fail.

    This is the reply I have drafted and not yet sent.

    I would like to make clear my motivation for contacting Welbilt. Certainly, I am not looking to lay blame or point fingers at Welbilt for the component failures we have had with some of our equipment. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever and that things do go wrong with commercial kitchen equipment, especially when the equipment is used in some fairly harsh environments. I would not be doing what I do for a living if this was not the case. However, I do believe the environment in our kitchens is much less harsh than commercial restaurant kitchens that are open year round and for 12 hours or more a day. Our kitchens are used for a little over 200 days a year and less than 6 hours a day.

    The ice machines and hot well failures are my main concerns, primarily because of the expense and man-hours involved with the repairs, and the failures occurring with equipment that is relatively new. I added the Danfoss Blue Display and toggle switch failures because these failures help to highlight, what I perceive to be, a lack of quality control, reliability and dependability with some Welbilt kitchen equipment components. Though they are not relatively expensive and time consuming repairs compared to the ice machines and hot well repairs, nevertheless, they are concerning.

    You commented that the Danfoss Blue Display failures were being caused by moisture and grease. I find that perplexing because the equipment is specifically designed to be placed in environments with moisture and grease, is it not? I'm not a design engineer, but I wonder why these displays are not designed to tolerate harsh environments? Also, I am having a difficult time understanding how DOE regulations affect how well a component performs or does not perform in commercial kitchen environments. For the record, we have only one kitchen that uses grease and that kitchen has no Delfield refrigerated or heated cabinets with these displays. The displays are not exposed to water or moisture, other than the latent moisture in the kitchen conditioned air.

    Let me clarify that it is not the internal components, like electronics or wiring, that are failing. Like I mentioned in my original email, it is the blue LEDs themselves that are burning out, not internal component failures. This is a guess on my part, but I believe whoever manufacturers the LEDs for Danfoss has a quality control issue.

    I look at vendors like Heritage Parts and Partstown. I see, for instance, at this point in time that they have in stock 128 and 317 Delfield 2194792 Blue Danfoss Displays, respectively. Because of the high number of these displays in stock, I have to believe they sell a lot of these displays and I find it difficult to believe that the majority of the displays these new parts are replacing are failing due to moisture and grease getting to the electronics and wiring. If moisture and grease were the problems, can you explain why the red LED displays for the heated cabinets are not failing?

    On to the Delfield 2190154 rocker switches. The failures that I have encountered are on Delfield serving lines and refrigerated pass-throughs. I have made certain that voltage is not the issue. The issue is mechanical. The internal switching mechanism is failing. I have taken apart the failed switches and I can see that the contacts are like new and I find no evidence of overheating. The metal switch that makes contact with the wiring terminals is become "dislodged", I think, which is causing the contacts not to make up. I had one toggle switch on a Delfield refrigerated pass-through where the plastic toggle came completely out of the housing, along with the spring and the metal switch. Again, I am trying not to beat a dead horse, but Heritage and Partstown have 104 and 346 in stock, respectively. Obviously, they sell a lot of these switches.

    Regarding the hot wells, here are the serial numbers for the two serving lines, each with one failed hot well. The failed wells have not been removed at this time. We have purchased one replacement well and it is in our possession.

    1506*********
    1506*********

    Voltage 208 Single Phase

    I will be providing the serial numbers of the Manitowoc Nugget ice machines in a separate email.

    Respectfully,

    ******* ******
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

  6. #31
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    Well, there ya go.

    Looks like there might be hope after all

  7. #32
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    Mani has 3 different cleaners. You might want to double check what kind gets used in your machine if they want to know that ;-)

  8. #33
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    Jul 2002
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Mani has 3 different cleaners. You might want to double check what kind gets used in your machine if they want to know that ;-)
    Yeah, I'm aware of which cleaner to use and it's not green.
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

  9. #34
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    Thread Starter
    Follow-Up

    After the response I received from Welbilt, I emailed back with my response. Welbit is going to provide, free of charge, two new hot wells and two new Blue Danfoss Displays with the caveat that the old components be returned to them for inspection. We have agreed to their conditions.
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

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  11. #35
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    There ya go!

    Good on them.

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandShark View Post
    Follow-Up

    After the response I received from Welbilt, I emailed back with my response. Welbit is going to provide, free of charge, two new hot wells and two new Blue Danfoss Displays with the caveat that the old components be returned to them for inspection. We have agreed to their conditions.
    .
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