An E-Mail to Welbilt

[SandShark]

Good morning, Mr. Boakes. Thank you for responding. I apologize for taking so long to get back with you.

The reason I asked to speak with someone higher up at Welbilt is because I am concerned with, what seems to me, frequent and expensive component failures in our relatively new Welbilt equipment in the past few years. I think someone in a management position should know about these failures. Here is a list:

2 - Manitowoc Nugget Ice Machines. Failures were complete evaporator assemblies (000012319) in both of the machines and a gear motor assembly (000011126) in one of the machines. Another of our nugget machines is "growling" and I expect it to fail soon. In case you are wondering, the machines are cleaned and sanitized as outlined in the service literature and the water filters are changed as needed. All of these machines are less than 3-years-old.

2 - Delfield Serving Line low wattage food wells with heat pads (3234798). After speaking with technical support, I learned that these particular wells, unlike conventional calrod heated wells, are not serviceable and the complete well needs replaced in the event of a heat pad failure. These two failures occurred within 6 months of each other on serving lines that are less than 4-years-old.

On a smaller expense scale, we seem to be losing a lot of Danfoss 077F8529 (ETP R1) blue LED temperature displays on our refrigerated roll-ins and pass-throughs. The major issue with these displays is the fact that the LED numbers are partially failing and making it difficult to read the proper temperature. I was told by technical support that these failures are caused by water or moisture. I informed the support person that the displays have never seen a drop of water. Oddly enough, we haven't had any failures of the red LED temperature displays on our heated roll-ins and pass-throughs.

Finally, on an even smaller expense scale, we lose a lot of 2190154 rocker switches. I buy them five at a time because they fail so often.

So, this is my rant. I would appreciate any feedback you can offer. Thank you.

[DavidDeBord]

Good morning, Mr. Boakes. Thank you for responding. I apologize for taking so long to get back with you.

The reason I asked to speak with someone higher up at Welbilt is because I am concerned with, what seems to me, frequent and expensive component failures in our relatively new Welbilt equipment in the past few years. I think someone in a management position should know about these failures. Here is a list:

2 - Manitowoc Nugget Ice Machines. Failures were complete evaporator assemblies (000012319) in both of the machines and a gear motor assembly (000011126) in one of the machines. Another of our nugget machines is "growling" and I expect it to fail soon. In case you are wondering, the machines are cleaned and sanitized as outlined in the service literature and the water filters are changed as needed. All of these machines are less than 3-years-old.

2 - Delfield Serving Line low wattage food wells with heat pads (3234798). After speaking with technical support, I learned that these particular wells, unlike conventional calrod heated wells, are not serviceable and the complete well needs replaced in the event of a heat pad failure. These two failures occurred within 6 months of each other on serving lines that are less than 4-years-old.

On a smaller expense scale, we seem to be losing a lot of Danfoss 077F8529 (ETP R1) blue LED temperature displays on our refrigerated roll-ins and pass-throughs. The major issue with these displays is the fact that the LED numbers are partially failing and making it difficult to read the proper temperature. I was told by technical support that these failures are caused by water or moisture. I informed the support person that the displays have never seen a drop of water. Oddly enough, we haven't had any failures of the red LED temperature displays on our heated roll-ins and pass-throughs.

Finally, on an even smaller expense scale, we lose a lot of 2190154 rocker switches. I buy them five at a time because they fail so often.

So, this is my rant. I would appreciate any feedback you can offer. Thank you.

That is Outstanding Sandshark!

Hopefully, ... This will Wake Up Welbilt, & they will zealously seek to Improve their Equipment.

[crazzycajun]

Didn’t realize mani was combined with every other kitchen wall of shame participants . Is this a if we can’t beat’em just buy’em scenario

[SandShark]

Yeah, Welbilt owns Manitowoc, Cleveland, Delfield, Garland, Kolpak, Lincoln, Merco, Multiplex and a couple of others. I remember working on Delfield equipment back in the early 80s. I didn't like them then and I don't like them now. Like pretty much all manufacturers these days, low parts bidder gets the contract.

[crazzycajun]

Yeah, Welbilt owns Manitowoc, Cleveland, Delfield, Garland, Kolpak, Lincoln, Merco, Multiplex and a couple of others. I remember working on Delfield equipment back in the early 80s. I didn't like them then and I don't like them now. Like pretty much all manufacturers these days, low parts bidder gets the contract.

Shame as you say some of those were crap and remain that way, at one time I considered mani one of the top manufacturers

[2sac]

Shame as you say some of those were crap and remain that way, at one time I considered mani one of the top manufacturers

Being one of the top, with only 5 big players in the restaurant ice machine business, isn't much. You've got Hoshi, Mani, Scottsman, IOM, and Cornelius.

[Olivero]

I had a bit of a run-in with Welbilt 2 years ago, just got a new Convotherm 4 20.20 unit, had it for a little over a year or 2 and it's making this horrible sound when the bottom burner would fire. We called it the "Gunshot" because that's what it sounded like or a stack of pans hitting the ground.

SO, up until this point a certain company was servicing them as they were under warranty so after the 1st or 2nd year the unit was out of labor warranty first, then parts warranty.

I go to service it and when I pull the burner off I notice cracks around where the burner is sitting, on the metal wall seperating the electrical compartment to the oven cooking cavity.... Start to pull stuff off, combustion blower is partially melted, ignition control is partially melted, I'm astounded, what in the world?

So I call Convotherm and I'm chatting away and I tell them what I see and so we hang up. I'm waiting for an email.

"Unfortunately the warranty on this unit has expired"

Ah, what?

My answer was

"Okay,

Being this seems more like a mistake from either the factory or the tech from the service company that has been servicing the unit during the warranty period than a common wear type problem. Can we extend the warranty to cover this?"

He then asks me what part, the blower or the module?

All of it, dude.

Anyways, long story short, I ended up getting a new ignition module, new blower, new heat exchanger (because why not?), new gaskets, igniters, and the 9. all overnight shipped from Germany, I installed the next day. Got authorization from Welbilt to weld the cracks myself which I did while waiting for parts and there ya go, 30 hour downtime but back up and running from dead in the water.

So I understand where you are coming from, it seems the bigger companies don't care as much as they used to.

They bought Crema international as well recently, now they are doing coffee also.

[2sac]

I had a bit of a run-in with Welbilt 2 years ago, just got a new Convotherm 4 20.20 unit, had it for a little over a year or 2 and it's making this horrible sound when the bottom burner would fire. We called it the "Gunshot" because that's what it sounded like or a stack of pans hitting the ground.

SO, up until this point a certain company was servicing them as they were under warranty so after the 1st or 2nd year the unit was out of labor warranty first, then parts warranty.

I go to service it and when I pull the burner off I notice cracks around where the burner is sitting, on the metal wall seperating the electrical compartment to the oven cooking cavity.... Start to pull stuff off, combustion blower is partially melted, ignition control is partially melted, I'm astounded, what in the world?

So I call Convotherm and I'm chatting away and I tell them what I see and so we hang up. I'm waiting for an email.

"Unfortunately the warranty on this unit has expired"

Ah, what?

My answer was

"Okay,

Being this seems more like a mistake from either the factory or the tech from the service company that has been servicing the unit during the warranty period than a common wear type problem. Can we extend the warranty to cover this?"

He then asks me what part, the blower or the module?

All of it, dude.

Anyways, long story short, I ended up getting a new ignition module, new blower, new heat exchanger (because why not?), new gaskets, igniters, and the 9. all overnight shipped from Germany, I installed the next day. Got authorization from Welbilt to weld the cracks myself which I did while waiting for parts and there ya go, 30 hour downtime but back up and running from dead in the water.

So I understand where you are coming from, it seems the bigger companies don't care as much as they used to.

They bought Crema international as well recently, now they are doing coffee also.

I have to believe that eventually the chinese and mexican manufacturing is going to bite the manufacturers in the ass. I have to believe.....

[SandShark]

I had a bit of a run-in with Welbilt 2 years ago, just got a new Convotherm 4 20.20 unit, had it for a little over a year or 2 and it's making this horrible sound when the bottom burner would fire. We called it the "Gunshot" because that's what it sounded like or a stack of pans hitting the ground.

SO, up until this point a certain company was servicing them as they were under warranty so after the 1st or 2nd year the unit was out of labor warranty first, then parts warranty.

I go to service it and when I pull the burner off I notice cracks around where the burner is sitting, on the metal wall seperating the electrical compartment to the oven cooking cavity.... Start to pull stuff off, combustion blower is partially melted, ignition control is partially melted, I'm astounded, what in the world?

So I call Convotherm and I'm chatting away and I tell them what I see and so we hang up. I'm waiting for an email.

"Unfortunately the warranty on this unit has expired"

Ah, what?

My answer was

"Okay,

Being this seems more like a mistake from either the factory or the tech from the service company that has been servicing the unit during the warranty period than a common wear type problem. Can we extend the warranty to cover this?"

He then asks me what part, the blower or the module?

All of it, dude.

Anyways, long story short, I ended up getting a new ignition module, new blower, new heat exchanger (because why not?), new gaskets, igniters, and the 9. all overnight shipped from Germany, I installed the next day. Got authorization from Welbilt to weld the cracks myself which I did while waiting for parts and there ya go, 30 hour downtime but back up and running from dead in the water.

So I understand where you are coming from, it seems the bigger companies don't care as much as they used to.

They bought Crema international as well recently, now they are doing coffee also.

At least you got something out of them. We have two OGS10.10 Convotherms that the stainless steel inside the cooking compartment started rusting within a month of installation. They warrantied the first time, but when the replacements started rusting again, they sent out a company to test our water. Of course, it was the water's fault, even with the high dollar Claris water filter system and ConvoCare wash and rinse chemicals. They voided our remaining warranty.

[crazzycajun]

Being one of the top, with only 5 big players in the restaurant ice machine business, isn't much. You've got Hoshi, Mani, Scottsman, IOM, and Cornelius.

hoshi and mani I thought were the top two when it came to freezing water. I remember when you bought the case and set the refrigeration unit on top with mani. Reach ins

[itsiceman]

Manitowoc Food Service Changed its name to Welbilt in 2017

[itsiceman]

I remember back in the early 90's being at the Manitowoc factory and the old CEO dude saying Manitowoc will never make a flaker...

[DavidDeBord]

I have to believe that eventually the chinese and mexican manufacturing is going to bite the manufacturers in the ass. I have to believe.....

I Agree 2sac.

I also Believe that America's Corporations/ Manufacturing plants overseas is soon going to cause America to have a Major Case of Hemorroids when it comes to Service parts & HVAC/ Refrig/ Kitchen Equipment.

[DavidDeBord]

At least you got something out of them. We have two OGS10.10 Convotherms that the stainless steel inside the cooking compartment started rusting within a month of installation. They warrantied the first time, but when the replacements started rusting again, they sent out a company to test our water. Of course, it was the water's fault, even with the high dollar Claris water filter system and ConvoCare wash and rinse chemicals. They voided our remaining warranty.

Did that end up in Court Sandshark?

[VanMan812]

I hope you get a positive response but I highly doubt they’ll do anything. Unless your a large chain (only 100+ stores gets their attention) manufacturers don’t even raise an eyebrow. And in your position Sandshark, taking care of a big school district right?, they probably won’t do anything. Good thinking going to the top of the conglomerate though.

Keep us posted, I’d like to hear what happens. Good luck!!

[2sac]

I Agree 2sac.

I also Believe that America's Corporations/ Manufacturing plants overseas is soon going to cause America to have a Major Case of Hemorroids when it comes to Service parts & HVAC/ Refrig/ Kitchen Equipment.

It happened to me.

I laid a 5x6 paver foundation for a shed a couple weeks ago. I'm no gardener and I figured "Why spend $30 on a rake I will never use again" Bought the HDX ANVIL rake from Home Depot for $10. Assembled in America from foreign sourced parts, like that makes it any better. Welds broke almost instantly as soon as the rake touched the soil. Went back to HD and exchanged it. Same thing with the second rake. What are the odds? Borrowed a rake from my neighbor to finish the job and returned the second rake. An old timer working at HD saw me returning it and started in about the Chinese welds. I agreed completely. I've spent thousands of dollars on quality tools that help me make a living and make my life easier. I should know better than to cut corners. I want to believe people are going to open their eyes and stop buying garbage. It's not worth the frustrations.

[DavidDeBord]

It happened to me.

I laid a 5x6 paver foundation for a shed a couple weeks ago. I'm no gardener and I figured "Why spend $30 on a rake I will never use again" Bought the HDX ANVIL rake from Home Depot for $10. Assembled in America from foreign sourced parts, like that makes it any better. Welds broke almost instantly as soon as the rake touched the soil. Went back to HD and exchanged it. Same thing with the second rake. What are the odds? Borrowed a rake from my neighbor to finish the job and returned the second rake. An old timer working at HD saw me returning it and started in about the Chinese welds. I agreed completely. I've spent thousands of dollars on quality tools that help me make a living and make my life easier. I should know better than to cut corners. I want to believe people are going to open their eyes and stop buying garbage. It's not worth the frustrations.

I also have experienced many times, the Grief & Stress, that arises from Cheap, Overseas Manufactured Parts & Equipment.

What Really Makes me Angry, .... Is that a lot of those items, have "American Name Brands" on them, & those Factories used to be here in America, when I was a child.

Which reminds me, .... What happened to all of those Factories that were supposed to be returning to America?

Anyhow, ... In Today's World, per the OP, ... Only Zealous & Highly Public Actions taken about these Inferior Products, ... That could potentially harm what is in the Manufacturer's Wallet, seems to be the only way to get results, after having been brushed to the side/ ignored, or trampled by "Standard Operating Procedures" carried out by the Manufacturer.

[itsiceman]

Went to Menards the other day.
The least expensive rake was made in the USA.
I bought three. One for each kid

[DavidDeBord]

Went to Menards the other day.
The least expensive rake was made in the USA.
I bought three. One for each kid

Careful itsiceman, .... Some Snowflake will cry out "Child Abuse! Slavery!", if they see Your Kids raking the leaves, & grass.

What "American made rake" did you find?

[2sac]

I also have experienced many times, the Grief & Stress, that arises from Cheap, Overseas Manufactured Parts & Equipment.

What Really Makes me Angry, .... Is that a lot of those items, have "American Name Brands" on them, & those Factories used to be here in America, when I was a child.

Which reminds me, .... What happened to all of those Factories that were supposed to be returning to America?

Anyhow, ... In Today's World, per the OP, ... Only Zealous & Highly Public Actions taken about these Inferior Products, ... That could potentially harm what is in the Manufacturer's Wallet, seems to be the only way to get results, after having been brushed to the side/ ignored, or trampled by "Standard Operating Procedures" carried out by the Manufacturer.

Equipment manufacturers make equipment that will hopefully last until the warranty is up. or at least until the new restaurant goes under and the equipment is auctioned off. They have no reason to make it last longer. Sad for the guy who bought the junk.