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  1. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    OMG! Are you kidding. The public will spend the insurance company's money without any concern at all. Just like you doing blood work every 12 months. Like heck if you would spend your money that way, but since it's 'covered' (free) you do it.

    My sister-in-law's mother was terminally ill with cancer and had two months to live. In her last days they spent (wasted) $300K on bs medical expenses and she died anyway. Her husband is worth about $5M and I highly doubt he'd spend his money that way. But he spent Medicare's.
    Me spending $4(oh, wait. That's the price in the consumer driven free market)......

    So me getting a blood test for cholesterol and blood sugar(diabetes runs in the family) is a needed. A simple cheap blood test is a wise choice. Would you rather I run around for a few years with a 270 cholesterol level which will lead to huge health problems and expenses down the road? Same with diabetes. Not keeping tabs is financially stupid. Especially if we go to free market and the two tests together are $15 a year vs your scheme.

    And also, my way wouldn't flush $300k down the toilet in a couple months on a terminally ill patient with no hope.

    Please. Save your childish illogical arguments for someone else.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
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    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
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  2. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Me spending $4(oh, wait. That's the price in the consumer driven free market)......

    So me getting a blood test for cholesterol and blood sugar(diabetes runs in the family) is a needed. A simple cheap blood test is a wise choice. Would you rather I run around for a few years with a 270 cholesterol level which will lead to huge health problems and expenses down the road? Same with diabetes. Not keeping tabs is financially stupid. Especially if we go to free market and the two tests together are $15 a year vs your scheme.

    And also, my way wouldn't flush $300k down the toilet in a couple months on a terminally ill patient with no hope.

    Please. Save your childish illogical arguments for someone else.
    You are currently getting two blood tests done outside your health insurance (cash) for four dollars total?

  3. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    You are currently getting two blood tests outside your health insurance (cash) for four dollars total?
    No. Unfortunately I'm stuck in the leftist sanctioned and set up political/corporate scheme. I have no idea what is paid and to who. I just know my co-pay is $35.

    But what I do know is Altas MD gets people those tests for under $15. One of them is $4. Can't remember which one. That's the full boat price in a consumer driven free market.

    Think about that. The full cost in a consumer driven free market is less that half of my CO-PAY in the government controlled mess we have now. And what will your Medicare for all save? 20% off the co-pay and what is billed out behind my back. Yippie! Sounds great, BriGuy.

    I have posted the proof of that several times. I'm assuming you never looked because of the closed mind thing?
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley


    "One out of 3 Democrat voters is just as stupid as the other two"
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  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    No. Unfortunately I'm stuck in the leftist sanctioned and set up political/corporate scheme. I have no idea what is paid and to who. I just know my co-pay is $35.

    But what I do know is Altas MD gets people those tests for under $15. One of them is $4. Can't remember which one. That's the full boat price in a consumer driven free market.

    I have posted the proof of that several times. I'm assuming you never looked because of the closed mind thing?
    I don't' know what Atlas MD is but it seems like a coop. Do you belong to it or use them?

    If you like to pay the $35 copay, what is "billed behind your back?"

  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    That's the full boat price in a consumer driven free market.
    Bull. Atlas MD does not operate in a "consumer driven free market" and neither does Surgery Center of Oklahoma. AMD specifically says to keep your health insurance policy. I'm sure SCO says the same thing since they do not replace that care/policy/coverage.

    Your posts on this thread are a total mess!

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Bull. Atlas MD does not operate in a "consumer driven free market" and neither does Surgery Center of Oklahoma. AMD specifically says to keep your health insurance policy. I'm sure SCO says the same thing since they do not replace that care/policy/coverage.

    Your posts on this thread are a total mess!
    You don't have the capacity to understand. There is no other explanation. Unless Ashton Kutcher is involved and I'm on Punked.


    They say to keep catastrophic policies along with an HSA. And so have I. Many times if you paid attention. In case something major happens. But up to that point, the patient is calling the shots and paying the bills with their tax free HSA.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley


    "One out of 3 Democrat voters is just as stupid as the other two"
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  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    You don't have the capacity to understand. There is no other explanation. Unless Ashton Kutcher is involved and I'm on Punked.


    They say to keep catastrophic policies along with an HSA. And so have I. Many times if you paid attention. In case something major happens. But up to that point, the patient is calling the shots and paying the bills with their tax free HSA.
    You have no idea what simple terms like catastrophic plan, HSA or negotiating with cash means. You think you are smarter than Charlie Munger and all Canadians. So it is futile to continue this conversation. You also leapfrog over nearly every point I make. Like I said, you've lost your edge and have been destroyed.

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    You have no idea what simple terms like catastrophic plan, HSA or negotiating with cash means. You think you are smarter than Charlie Munger and all Canadians. So it is futile to continue this conversation. You also leapfrog over nearly every point I make. Like I said, you've lost your edge and have been destroyed.
    Oh please simpleton.

    Let's try this. The things I've said for years, are almost exactly what Dr Smith and Josh Umbehr at Atlas say. Almost exactly what they have done. And these things work. What I've said for years will work, is being done by these guys and other places. It's not a theory.

    I remember when you discovered Dr Smith. You were so excited. He explained the problems in our system and how the scam works. You actually tried to use his worlds against me. You were soooooo proud of yourself.

    Then I explained to you his solution was a free market system. Then I explained to you I agreed with his criticism of our system and had been saying both these things for years. You did your best attempt to try and tell me what your new hero was saying was different that what I had been saying. It was cute as you tried. But you finally gave up. Quietly. Of course you never admitted I was right. What I've been saying for years works and was being implemented with AMAZING success at the SCoO.

    He also has been critical of single payer. He sounded just like me actually. It was amazing. It was uncanny.

    So tell me, does Dr Umbehr and Dr Smith also not know what "catastrophic plan, HSA or negotiating with cash" means? Cuz they sound just like me. They are using all three with great success. AND NO ONE ELSE IS.

    Yeah, BriGuy. We have no idea what we're talking about. Lol.

    Please, point me to the great success of what you support. And don't just say "Canada" or "Medicare". I've detailed how you are far off base and you have had no counter argument.

    Medicare for all would be just as expensive as what we have now and quality/availability to care would be reduced. I've posted facts, links, evidence, real world examples. You have no counter argument. Your counter argument is Medicare works pretty good using our in place system. Without taking into account how our "system" would change drastically if the federal government was managing/paying for it. It would turn into the VA and not continue to be a system that simply piggybacks off our in place system but pays 20% less. But you think it would just expand to cover everyone. Lol. Yeah, GC. Nicely thought out. No flaws in that logic.

    I've posted the numbers for Canada. Somehow you tried to argue with these documented numbers. Numbers that no has been able to counter. They have been quietly accepted by everyone. And trust me, they have all looked at and wanted to discount them.

    And I've explained why it would cost even more in America. Due to the size and diversity. Due to the existing federal government already fraught with waste, fraud and abuse. More so than Canada. Also, with the way the left uses identity politics, it would become a great weapon for leftists to further tear apart the country. Yeah, it's an opinion...... But how can you argue for a second that's not accurate. Or I should say, how can a sane person argue that isn't true?

    So, I don't understand "catastrophic plan, HSA or negotiating with cash"?

    Why is what I support the only system having true success? How do several people like Dr Smith and Umbehr create new type systems that actually work, whoes understanding of these things is the same as mine? Dr Smith used to be your hero until you finally admitted(internally) he was saying the EXACT same thing as me. Give him a call and tell him he doesn't understand it.

    This is our pattern Brian. You get smacked down with facts. Not leftist theories that never pan out. Real and supported facts. With links provided. Then you lash out at me.

    Call Dr Smith and yell at him for lying to and swindling all those thousands of happy patients.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley


    "One out of 3 Democrat voters is just as stupid as the other two"
    -Said by me

  9. #113
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    This thread is not about how some little, isolated clinic will save a person money who has no insurance. It is about how those clinics will make private insurance companies obsolete. So tell me, under what conditions will you or anyone in you company fly to Oklahoma for a $20K operation? Even they say that they are no replacement for private health insurance.

    You seem to think that if some people can ride their bicycles to work then the bike is a replacement for the car.

    Tell me this, can a person use their HSA money at Surgery Center of Oklahoma?

    Can you use your ability to negotiate when using your health insurance?

    Oh, and BTW, there are no more real catastrophic plans. ACA outlawed them. And you definitely don't have one!

    Now do your famous leapfrog routine.

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    This thread is not about how some little, isolated clinic will save a person money who has no insurance. It is about how those clinics will make private insurance companies obsolete. So tell me, under what conditions will you or anyone in you company fly to Oklahoma for a $20K operation?

    Even they say that they are no replacement for private health insurance.

    You seem to think that if some people can ride their bicycles to work then the bike is a replacement for the car.

    Tell me this, can a person use their HSA money at Surgery Center of Oklahoma?

    Can you use your ability to negotiate when using your health insurance?

    Oh, and BTW, there are no more real catastrophic plans. ACA outlawed them. And you definitely don't have one!

    Now do your famous leapfrog routine.
    Good lord Brian.

    I've said often laws and regs need to be changed or better yet....... Removed. Simple. Whats wrong with your head that something so simple stops you in your tracks.

    It's like the mispoken word "coverage" by that lady in the video. Complete mental shut down by you. "Oops, can't get past that. Time to shut down."

    Also, yes. HSAs and FSAs are accepted at SCOO. I'm sure they are at Atlas also.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley


    "One out of 3 Democrat voters is just as stupid as the other two"
    -Said by me

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    Good lord Brian.

    I've said often laws and regs need to be changed or better yet....... Removed. Simple. Whats wrong with your head that something so simple stops you in your tracks.
    I did not disagree with that.

    It's like the mispoken word "coverage" by that lady in the video. Complete mental shut down by you. "Oops, can't get past that. Time to shut down."
    How do you know what I said they were lying about? FYI, they said all private insurance will go away with single payer. A LIE! Private insurance currently works along with single payer (Medicare) now. And why must we choose between the two? Why can't we have both?

    Also, yes. HSAs and FSAs are accepted at SCOO. I'm sure they are at Atlas also.
    I am not denying that but where did you read it? What I read made no mention of HSA accounts.

    Then tell me under what condition would you fly to Oklahoma?

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I did not disagree with that.
    Yet you constantly say things like the ACA regulations don't allow "X" or "Y". Why do you say things like that if you know a non-puke politician can just change/remove those regs? So you either do disagree with it, or you agree with it but your need to argue and not admit when you're wrong is too strong and you can stop yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    How do you know what I said they were lying about? FYI, they said all private insurance will go away with single payer. A LIE! Private insurance currently works along with single payer (Medicare) now. And why must we choose between the two? Why can't we have both?
    Well you might want to tell everyone who is proposing single payer/Medicare for all that. There is no one even telling the lie you will be able to keep private insurance anymore. You are the only one who hasn't gotten the message. Once again the conservatives were right about that as we were telling you for years, private insurance goes away.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ce-deductibles

    Suplimental plans will still likely be avalable at about $300 a month. You know, on top of increasing your taxes $20k plus a year. Have fun with that.

    You shouldn't have turned off the interview as soon as you heard a statement you didn't believe. First off, she was right. Second, anytime I'm listening to someone who is knowledgeable, I'll listen knowing they might be right about something I don't think is true. I'll certainly check it after I'm done. But I would never just shut it down. You missed out on some really good insight and, as it turns out, she was right and you are wrong. Private insurance will go away under Medicare for all/single payer or whatever the democrats and media(same thing) decide to call it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I am not denying that but where did you read it? What I read made no mention of HSA accounts.
    I've mentioned that often. You have no l desire to read what I write or check my links. You just want to prove the silly conservative is wrong. We rarely are, BTW. Just accept it.

    Not sure when or where I've read it and have talked about it often here. But I definitely remember it. You can use you tax deferred HSA or an FSA to pay for direct primary care at SCOO and Atlas. And would be able to at any other provider that pops up.

    I've also said Washington should expand and improve the regs surrounding HSAs and FSAs. Let them accumulate. Allow people to will them upon death.

    Not only can you get health care 50-99% cheaper, but that money you use could be tax deferred saving an additional 30%(approx). Crap that a lot of savings!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Then tell me under what condition would you fly to Oklahoma?
    First off, if we did what I'm proposing, these providers would pop up everywhere. How don't you know that?

    Second, I certainly would hop on a plane and go there if thier cost is lower than my deductible and/or copay would be.

    Third, I have a buddy with some serious medical conditions. He had insurance before the ACA but it got too expensive(thanks liberals). He hasn't had insurance for a few years now. He already has their pricing list and told me he will it to get a better cash deal here and he will definately hop a plane if he can't get pricing comparable.

    Dr Smith has mentioned this happens often. My buddy will be one of them that uses his listed pricing to beat local providers down or hop a plane.

    Dr Smith even said he get quite a few~~~~~~gasp~~~~~~CANDIANS! It actually happens often according to them.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley


    "One out of 3 Democrat voters is just as stupid as the other two"
    -Said by me

  13. #117
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    Brian, if you think private insurance will ever go away you are mistaken. They wrote and brought us The ACA, proven by their stock value exploding 800% afterwards. Plus, they own this country now and are deeply in bed with healthcare providers. No politician could ever stand up to them and close down their businesses now.

    Besides, who really cares about the healthcare mess now anyway. Not you, not most folks on this site, not the poor, not those who work for big corps as yourself, not your co-workers. So WHO is going to spearhead this massively bold move to shut down the massively profitable scam the Big Three is perpetrating on us? Who? Little guys like me who are at the brunt end of it? NO! There aren't enough of me to matter. So who, a few scumbag politicians? And why, their poor folks already get free healthcare. So name the large groups of people who would back it? Nancy Pelosi? She and her minions already get free healthcare. Besides, Medicare for all means everyone pays for it in their taxes. That means the poor would start contributing to healthcare just like they contribute to our wars and infrastructure in their taxes withdrawn. Where is the move toward higher taxes for the poor?

    When the ACA was passed they knew it would not affect folks like you, unions, city/state and fed workers, my brothers, my ex-wife, my wife who worked for Bechtel at the time, etc. You guys were all immune to the ACA and the politicians knew they'd get no backlash from you. If they tried to shut down all health insurance companies and fix medical procedure prices now they know the backlash and could not stand up to it.

    Your fear of Medicare for all is made up. Your analysis of Canadian Care is made up. Your impression that Charlie Munger is clueless about healthcare is made up. Your hopes that we can start negotiating with healthcare providers is made up. Your hopes that there are enough people that give a sh!t either way is also made up. The closed market corruption is here to stay.

    So stop worrying Brian. Nobody is going to take away your free cadillac healthcare. And you will not be flying to Oklahoma anytime soon.

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