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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilp172 View Post
    Google project Sandstar
    In the past more the original idea for LON was more of a sensor network. Then, they came out with Pyxos and were saying things like embed that in your floor or carpeting. So not the media changes to IP and the same issues emerge on platform constraints and requirements. We find the next opening here is to have a platform which accepts IoT information and easily moves it into building automation. This is still where the top side tech is failing.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilp172 View Post
    Google project Sandstar
    java
    Gonna be a hard no from me on that one
    Friends don't let friends Lon.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskilltech View Post
    Gonna be a hard no from me on that one
    You don't like working with java? I can understand the want to not have the java plugin running in the browser but eliminating java completely is strange.
    Scott Jalbert, WebCTRL ninja, AX and Smartstruxure newb, SiteScan Retired

    The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    You don't like working with java? I can understand the want to not have the java plugin running in the browser but eliminating java completely is strange.
    That's the difference between an integrator and a developer.

  5. #31
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    Ah, maybe I didn't read enough. I don't code, I just use java apps all over the place and yet it's been a couple years sense I've needed the java browser plugin.
    Scott Jalbert, WebCTRL ninja, AX and Smartstruxure newb, SiteScan Retired

    The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Ah, maybe I didn't read enough. I don't code, I just use java apps all over the place and yet it's been a couple years sense I've needed the java browser plugin.
    That was more of a generalization of the types of people in our industry...

    Integrators are generally ill-informed and throw out blanket statements about how terrible Java is how it needs to go away, but it's just the implementation of Java on the front that has been the problem. Java is perfectly fine for back-end things and pretty much everything except where the system meets the internet/web browsers.

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synyster View Post
    That was more of a generalization of the types of people in our industry...

    Integrators are generally ill-informed and throw out blanket statements about how terrible Java is how it needs to go away, but it's just the implementation of Java on the front that has been the problem. Java is perfectly fine for back-end things and pretty much everything except where the system meets the internet/web browsers.
    I'll bite on this one... Why do you think integrators are not fond of JAVA?

    Secondly, "pretty much everything except..." that's a big one, don't you think?

    I think for embedded devices javascript is very helpful.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterDuck View Post
    I'll bite on this one... Why do you think integrators are not fond of JAVA?

    Secondly, "pretty much everything except..." that's a big one, don't you think?

    I think for embedded devices javascript is very helpful.
    I'll agree on Javascript. There's a reason it's one of the most utilized scripting languages in the world. I'm working on some Node.js/Sedona stuff myself right now, I love it.

    I know exactly why integrators aren't fond of JAVA, but that doesn't have anything to do with JAVA as a programming language. Their beef is with how software companies implemented it in the end user experience, but I'm sure they don't know the difference. This new trendy HTML5 thing that people throw around constantly, still interfaces with the same JAVA nuts and bolts under the hood as before.

    I see nothing wrong with my "pretty much everything except" statement. Go check out stackshare and find a noteworthy tech company that uses 1 single software in their stack to perform everything from back-end database management to front-end web visualization. You won't.

  9. #35
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    No, I really do hate java. Sure it has good multithreaded performance, but the only people who love java are boomers that learned on basic, cobol and fortran. Java needs to die a fiery and horrid death. There are better choices out there.
    Friends don't let friends Lon.

  10. #36
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    "Better" all in the eyes of the beholder, like "Friends don't let friends Lon." Just saying...

    A good coder/programmer in their 'familiar' language will almost always do a better job than using an unfamiliar language. Issue at hand comes into 'higher' level security and such challenges. Popularity is also a problem, recall early Apple adopters claims of never being hacked, no $ as not enough base for it to be worthwhile, then...

    Proprietary has it's place...just awaiting the day BACnet gets a bigger black eye due to lack of security and in turn some thing else comes into play. But hey Modbus same story, yet it's still strong. Recall years ago, likley a decade plus watching a generator get destroyed at I think at an INL test, when a hacker got into it (Modbus control) and let it over run, disable sensors/whatever so the engine blew.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    My 5 yr old son "Dad, Siri is not very smart when there's no internet."


  11. #37
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    I Love BACnet
    Keep it simple to keep it cool!

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by incontrol View Post
    We've had customers request proprietary to keep these "open" mechanical/electrical contractors out.
    This & Crab Master's comments are why I believe there will still be a market for less open & also proprietary systems for some time, albeit perhaps much smaller.
    While there's some really interesting stuff happening around the whole IOT & IT stuff, my thinking is that there are occasions where the client may prefer it for various reasons as Incontrol says. For e.g. reliability. Or maybe a higher level of support. Or as part of a security system using the closed protocol as another layer of 'anti hacker'. Maybe they're something relatively critical like a laboratory or hospital, and want the assurance of using a tier one system / contractor which might mean going proprietary (actually - thinking about our favourite integration engine - Fox isn't an open protocol, is it?).
    Maybe it's an industrial or a vehicular application where speed and reliability are paramount. (I've once met a guy who engineered F1 & aeronautical systems. He took a looong time to get his head around the idea that 15 min was adequate for polling a room temp, 'cos 15 milliseconds was like an eon to him!)
    I mean, some users can accept Blue Box. Others buy Trane, Carrier, or York.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanbyyourword View Post
    I Love BACnet
    Me too! 😁

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