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  1. #27
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobie View Post
    Wayne, we always use auto-flow valves on vavs. They still need to be checked during tab, but no adjustment needed.
    With those, the more important part of the balancing is the riser balance in a high rise, or the main branch lines in a more sprawling system.

    The smaller terminals are less important, but the key to any balance is a completed system, clean strainers, correct rotation, and every valve open and a properly filled system .

    But most times balancing is “done” in steps before the system is totally complete.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #28
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Bay Area California
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    Yeah, I'm sure if I did a lot more of it, I would've gotten faster/better. But since I only did a few, and probably a year or more apart, well, you get the idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    After you have done a lot of water balance it gets a lot easier. The recommended method is to preset the circuit setters by calculating the pressure drop needed. In my opinion that is a waste of time. If you start nearest the pump and set the flow slightly lower than design two passes will usually do it. When I was doing a lot of water balance I fairly often got almost all of them on the first pass. Even at that you still have to read the circuit setters twice.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Louisburg Kansas
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    Thread Starter
    Scoobie,
    The auto flow valves do control maximum flow. Reading the pressure drop across them only tells you if you have enough differential across the valve for it to work but doesn't tell the flow. When I was balancing full time the complaint with them was they started having problems after about 2 years. I don't know if that's still true.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #30
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    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Scoobie,
    The auto flow valves do control maximum flow. Reading the pressure drop across them only tells you if you have enough differential across the valve for it to work but doesn't tell the flow. When I was balancing full time the complaint with them was they started having problems after about 2 years. I don't know if that's still true.
    It’s the norm around here on big or small jobs. Tab guys ain’t real happy if you use circuit setters. Pressure independent control valves is the new hot thing. I personally don’t see what’s so great about the picv s.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Louisburg Kansas
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    Thread Starter
    Heatingman the reason some engineers hated me is I did make them accountable. There were contractors that banned me from meetings because as they said "we are afraid of what you will say". I told them the truth and apparently it hurt. I had engineers trying to tell me how to test HVAC systems that had never done it even one time. One engineer who not only didn't know my job but didn't know his either said I was doing my own thing. I said you are damn right I am and it is my thing not yours. One thing I enjoyed was when the fire marshal came to witness testing of the smoke fans the engineer poised himself to supervise the test. The fire marshal ask who was the balancer and found out it was me. He turned to the engineer and said the balancer is going to run this test.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    Thread Starter
    Why don't the TAB guys like circuit setters? Usually the ones I knew that didn't like them didn't like water balance because they didn't know how to do it. I don't like the circuit setters that read out in inches because it doesn't take much system instability to make them impossible to set.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    They know how to balance them. They just take a lot longer.

  9. #34
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    May 2014
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    Bay Area California
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    LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Heatingman the reason some engineers hated me is I did make them accountable. There were contractors that banned me from meetings because as they said "we are afraid of what you will say". I told them the truth and apparently it hurt. I had engineers trying to tell me how to test HVAC systems that had never done it even one time. One engineer who not only didn't know my job but didn't know his either said I was doing my own thing. I said you are damn right I am and it is my thing not yours. One thing I enjoyed was when the fire marshal came to witness testing of the smoke fans the engineer poised himself to supervise the test. The fire marshal ask who was the balancer and found out it was me. He turned to the engineer and said the balancer is going to run this test.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
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    I think he only reason T&B is done at all is it's on the spec. or complaints are through the roof.
    I remember reading a T&B report in a contractors office. I told them that the report was incorrect. He told me he didn't care. All he cared about was the NEBB stamp. Getting paid was most important.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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