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  1. #1
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    Preprogramming a bacnet job

    Usually I hook up to the device and extract the points and go from there but what about getting this job started before I have the equipment?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by incontrol View Post
    Usually I hook up to the device and extract the points and go from there but what about getting this job started before I have the equipment?
    If you have programmable controllers, ie JCI FECs/FACs or Siemens PXCs I think you might be hosed, but if you have pre-packaged units you could always look up the manufacture's data sheets and start from there. Or any integration devices that would have fixed points.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by incontrol View Post
    Usually I hook up to the device and extract the points and go from there but what about getting this job started before I have the equipment?
    If you are talking about setting up BACnet points from devices provided by equipment manufactures, I wouldn't waste the time unless you have done many of the same pieces of equipment and are confident that the points have not changed. I just did a JCI VAV rooftop. The rooftop had two points labeled RA-T, exactly the same. One constantly read 72 while the other was the actual return temp. There was no way to tell before hand, and even the JCI guy couldn't explain it.

  4. #4
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    IMO

    The key to per-programming 3rd party OEM junk is where you divide the logic. If its a zoned system, I want to boil it down to unit occ/unocc and DAT / Static setpoints. That tends to keep the bulk of the equation constant and its just an interfacing issue. Easier to remove than add.

    You can take submitted points lists do everything. The delivered unit is a newer firmware and guess what...all the object numbers have shifted by 5, been renamed, etc. Cook things down to the least common denominator and sort out the last 10% when your live. If you constantly see XYZ unit and know things are solid, sure do 100% prior. Pissing in the wind in many cases otherwise IMO.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  5. #5
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    I would also add something I became aware of recently.

    So a certain equipment OEM is offering a BACnet, lets call it "interface", that is nothing more than a raw I/O interface and any and all logic needs to be done via the BMS. Painful as is, its not just comms as the VFD speeds and other points are hardwire only. So no matter what you need a H/W points and comms to work with this turd or rip out the factory "interface" likely voiding the warranty in the process.

    Winning the race to the bottom, IMO. This is a well known brand in the industry.

    When a MC tells you its a BACnet unit on bid day, it may be a new low.

    PM me if you want to see this ridiculous submittal.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  6. #6
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    This is a topic, IMHO, that sometimes be very important in regards to PM. Many moons ago, back in my Staefa days (DOS days), I was a PM on a Middle East project. Along with running (2) big jobs, the PM gave me a 3rd 'little job' - about 600 points - which had to be done in short order. I went to the software mgr. who quickly told me 'come back in a month, we're swamp'. So, being a DDC tech, I quickly banged out what I call "I/O code" - only the I/O points are in the code (with all the 'nasty' I/O characteristics, naming syntax, alarm settings, etc). Keep in mind those were the days when we hand typed in the point names (from the contract I/O list).

    The "I/O code" was delivered to two groups: 1) s/w team & 2) the commissioning team. It was a parallel effort. When the coders saw that they didn't have to do the 'grunt' I/O definition work and that they could immediately jump into the 'software sandbox' - that "come back 1 mo" line went away (& maybe the GM barked at them ;-). So during the coding the commissioning team was able to do the P2P testing, verify network & power and find out any DOA controllers. 80%+ of the problems are in the h/w (typically only small tweeks in the s/w - unless its a (dare I say 'wanker') PE spec like 'the VAV shall calculate exponentially weighted moving averages of temp/airflow error & damper duty cycle..sun position...). When the code was complete it was very easy to link it to the field-tested "I/O Code". Got the project finished ahead of the expected 'crazy' deadline.

    I've been curious of how to pull that (cleanly) off in the world of device/point discovery. In Niagara LON integration there's the "Match" function that maps the manually added LON devices (off-line database) with on-line 'discovered' LON devices. Devil in the details: correct program IDs; correct matching of the subnet-node logical addressing with the Neuron IDs, JACE must be commissioned before they can be discovered (seems obvious, but's who's coordinating the show??). I've also heard about using points from a Personal Palette. Niagara BACnet permits 'off-line' engineering - you can drag BACnet devices & points from the 'bacnet' palette, but you're at the mercy of a 'clean' I/O names & instance #'s & ?. The idea sounds cool; I've never had to do an "I/O Code" scramble play in my Tridium days and to actually witness if the 'hubcaps' come off - in the sense that you're trying to save time, you end spending more. Like Orion says, "Pissing in the wind..."

  7. #7
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    So, value engineered to the point if one comm wire gets disconnected everything just locks up? Guess reliability or fault tolerance isn't in that scope.
    Scott Jalbert, WebCTRL ninja, Naiagara AX and Smartstruxure newb, SiteScan Retired

    The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried

  8. #8
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    Thread Starter
    I guess I was wondering if anyone had worked with manufacturers that provide bacnet points like the shadow objects in Lon

  9. #9
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    Plenty of manufacturers do provide points and we generally ship those jobs with a 80~90% done program and graphic.
    Scott Jalbert, WebCTRL ninja, Naiagara AX and Smartstruxure newb, SiteScan Retired

    The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried

  10. #10
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    LOL We've gone as far as ripping out all the circuit boards and controlling the unit 100% must say this has been far better IMO than trying to work off of OEM'S points list that has a billion(that's a joke)!!!!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    I would also add something I became aware of recently.

    So a certain equipment OEM is offering a BACnet, lets call it "interface", that is nothing more than a raw I/O interface and any and all logic needs to be done via the BMS. Painful as is, its not just comms as the VFD speeds and other points are hardwire only. So no matter what you need a H/W points and comms to work with this turd or rip out the factory "interface" likely voiding the warranty in the process.

    Winning the race to the bottom, IMO. This is a well known brand in the industry.

    When a MC tells you its a BACnet unit on bid day, it may be a new low.

    PM me if you want to see this ridiculous submittal.


    LOL We've gone as far as ripping out all the circuit boards on an existing unit and controlling it entirely. must say this has been far better IMO than trying to work off of OEM'S points list that has a billion points(that's a joke)!!!!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsPAC View Post
    LOL We've gone as far as ripping out all the circuit boards on an existing unit and controlling it entirely. must say this has been far better IMO than trying to work off of OEM'S points list that has a billion points(that's a joke)!!!!!!
    What warranty?
    Scott Jalbert, WebCTRL ninja, Naiagara AX and Smartstruxure newb, SiteScan Retired

    The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried

  13. #13
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    great topic and replies
    Keep it simple to keep it cool!

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