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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    Connect to Barber Colman

    Hi there,

    I am new to the HVAC world and especially Barber Colman. I am trying to figure out how to connect to the GCM 86120 and the MicrozoneII controllers. I have read that I need an RJ-12 cable. I have a new laptop running windows 10. What do I need to be able to communicate with these controllers and read the programs that they have on them? I have no documentation on this system at all so I am flying blind for the most part.

    End goal is to replace the MZII controllers with AB PLC's. Any one ever done this before?

    Also, any manuals or reference documents relating to GCM's or MZII controllers would be incredibly helpful.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,162
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    In order to connect to a GCM and the Microzone controllers you will need a copy of XPSI. Are you trying ti integrate to the BC stuff first and then upgrade or are you just ripping it out? I have integrated to the BC field controllers many times by ripping out the GCM and putting in a Tridium Jace. It might be wise to make some contacts with a local company who is well versed in controls.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    205
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    You may want to contact the local Schneider Electric rep for some help. If the microzone 2 controllers are controlling anything critical you should do your homework. If the microzone 2 controllers are the only thing connected to the GCM and you remove them it is likely you won't need the GCM either. Can you describe the entire system and what type of facility or equipment is being controlled?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    8
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    Thread Starter
    Honestly I am in the process of trying to figure out what my best option is so I am open to hearing about what has worked well in the past for you. The end goal is to rip out all things BC but for now they want to get just the AHU's onto Rockwell PLC's. So integrate to start and overhaul at the shutdown later. It is a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility with need to hold tight tolerances on temp, humidity, and pressure in their clean rooms.
    To the best of my knowledge the topology is as follows:

    UNC-510-2
    |
    GCM86120
    | | | |
    MZ2A MZ2A ENCL-MZ800-WAL (x2)

    There may also be some PEM boards out there but that is not confirmed. There is no documentation on the system so what I know is only what I have found wired up out in the facility. Microzones2 are controlling an AHU each and not sure what the MN800 is controlling.

    The BC system controls other things as well but for now the only thing of concern is the AHU's. Is it practical to consider replacing the MZ2 with a micrologix and bypassing the GCM completely?

    Thanks for the responses, glad to have experienced help.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
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    I don't know about Rockwell's ability to integrate but I have successfully integrated to Barber Coleman with a Tridium Jace at least a dozen times. Pretty much every DDC manufacturer can control to tight tolerances quite well. It more depends on the programmer/installer than the product. By putting the AHU's on the Rockwell platform, my only concern would be making it talk to the rest of the BC equipment still in place. Does Rockwell have the drivers to communicate to your existing ASD network? Where are you located?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    Thread Starter
    What drivers are necessary to communicate with the ASD network? How complex is it to integrate a Tridium Jace? That is my concern as well, not sure if it will be able to communicate or if it would completely isolate that AHU. However I don't think isolating it would necessarily be a bad thing at this point.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
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    The driver for Tridium is an ASD driver. As far as isolating the AHU, that would depend on what else you have in the field. Are there VAV boxes for the zones or does the AHU just control for a return/zone temperature? I sent you an email with some info. My contact info is in it. Might be easier just to have a quick conversation

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    2,187
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    Based on what I'm reading here I think you need to back up a couple steps and contact controls company. Do this AFTER you have a scope and sequence of operation you want the system to do.

    You really don't care what controls go in place AB, Tridium, etc, you just need the system to perform and the controls company is going to pick something that does that and fits your sequence of operation. Your scope might say just do the AHU controls and integrate to/repair the rest. Maybe a complete retrofit makes more sense depending on how everything else is.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    8
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    Thread Starter
    Has anyone ever used Windows 10 to connect to the Invensys (BC) UNC-510-2? Currently the customer is using a WindowsXP PC and going on internet explorer, typing in the IP address of the UNC and viewing a graphics page. I tried doing this on my windows 10 pc with IE as well and it would not download the activeX controls, even after reducing the web securtiy level to basically nothing and allowing activeX to run in the internet options settings. Is it even possible for a newer OS to view the UNC graphics?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,278
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    I cannot connect to any R2 with windows 10 through a browser. Given the topology above I would rip out the 510 jace and the GCM and just put in a new jace with a Network8000 driver and just pick up the devices. Any controllers you replace after that you can start running a bacnet or lon wire around. These existing products are no longer supported. For now you can get an old laptop with a serial port and use the windows terminal mode to get into the GCM. Get it configured and hooked up and hold down the enter key and it will ask for the credentials. You'll have to duplicate the GCM programming in the jace.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    357
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Based on what I'm reading here I think you need to back up a couple steps and contact controls company. Do this AFTER you have a scope and sequence of operation you want the system to do.
    This. Your enthusiasm is admirable, but dealing with legacy stuff like this can be tough even with years of experience. It sounds like you are doing the equivalent of driving down the interstate with a blindfold on, hoping to yell at people in the other cars so they will tell you when to cut across 3 lanes of heavy traffic to get off at your exit.

    Unless this is a massive location with hundreds of devices, your best option is to leave the existing stuff alone. Any money and time spent buying gateways and drivers for legacy devices will ultimately be wasted. After replacing the UNC with a JACE 8000, put whatever funds they have left to new BACnet devices and lay out a plan to replace the remaining devices over the next few quarters or years. Investigate the comm wiring to see if it suitable for BACnet communication. If it is, you may be able to pull a new single home run for remaining Barber Colman devices and save yourself the expense of new communication wiring.

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