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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Yeah, I was going to follow this thread pretty close, add where I can but hopefully pick up a lot. I will see if I can post some pics of the panel set up.
    have you had a chance to look into any of this at all ?

    I am trying to sort through all of this ......

    originally I was going to install 4 - 100 watt panels as I could afford them eventually totaling 1,200 watts, but I think I would be better to just install 4 - 300 watt panels totaling 1,200 watts once

    thinking of just installing a 1,200 watt system, knowing it will be too small for the entire house, but whatever I can end up operating off of it is whatever I can end up operating off of it, definitely not going any bigger ..... plus, being in Cleveland, not as if there is an over abundance of Sun anyhow so even if the panels are over sized at times then good ..... I was thinking one advantage of being up north, in the winter the panels will have to be tilted nearly perpendicular to the ground to catch the Sun so any snow should fall off of them, lol

    also, thinking of going 24 volts, need to eventually get my wiring from the solar panels on the roof to the batteries in the basement, about a 50 - 60 foot run, so 24 volts will allow me to run thinner wiring ( 1,200 * 12 volts = 100 amps, 1,200 * 24 volts = 50 amps ), plus the 300 watt panels I am looking at are 24 volts, other 300 watt panels appear to be at a higher voltage also

    stopped by the battery place yesterday, thinking of using golf cart batteries as PHM suggested, cheaper, they carry Interstate batteries, a 6 volt for $ 122 rated at 225 Ah, and a 12 volt for $ 200 rated at 155 Ah, looks as if the 12 volt is the better way to go there ... supposedly these type batteries ( not sealed ) are supposed to be kept outside, but then the cold is supposed to kill batteries in the winter, and since I can't see no practical way to keep them outside heated I am thinking of putting them in the basement and ventilating them ....... going to have to sharpen up the pencil to do the math on sizing my batteries

    still researching the charge controller and the inverter / charger, looks as if there is not going to be any way around spending a decent amount of money on either on this size system, especially the inverter / charger ... sure would like to know more about all of this, youtube is a huge help but still somewhat confusing, but this is only day 3, sooo .....
    Last edited by hvacskills; 02-23-2019 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #28
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    Aug 2009
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    I have an out building 40' away from the house. It has a 3 slope barn style roof, the center section is about at 45° which is where i plan on putting both PV and thermal panels. I have a platform in the one end of the building that will be used as a garden shed and I was going to put the batteries under there on a roll out cart. I was planing on using sealed batteries to help avoid the whole ventilation issue. I put a conduit between the 2 buildings and plan on running 120 off the inverter to the indoor panel. I have tube in the floor in the out building also so it should stay above 40 or at least that is the plan. I figure to heat the building I need to heat the floor to 50 so the water would need to be 60 for the OB, then the water for the house needs to be 80-90 to keep the space around 70. My thought is at 40 the panels will start working sooner and can put heat into the OB, once the OB is 40ish then transfer the water to the house where it can start heating that floor and domestic which I figure can be heated to 160 in the preheat tank then put a mixing valve so there is only 125 going to the fixtures on the domestic side. With the preheat tank that hot I can draw off the tank for a bit at night. I want to try and keep it as minimal as possible and just let it do what it will do, every BTU added through the solar is one I don't have to buy so to speak. Same way with the PV. The plan is the be able to run outside lights all night and what ever is needed inside off the PV. Trying to make it work cheap so there is not as much to pay back, faster ROI.

    I have not had a chance to see any of the videos yet. We are in the calm before the storm right now, supposed to have a blizzard coming in this PM, around noon starting as rain. Radar shows the rain but it doesn't look like much out the window yet. So I may have time when cooped up from the storm or it may cause Issues I need to deal with.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I have an out building 40' away from the house. It has a 3 slope barn style roof, the center section is about at 45° which is where i plan on putting both PV and thermal panels. I have a platform in the one end of the building that will be used as a garden shed and I was going to put the batteries under there on a roll out cart. I was planing on using sealed batteries to help avoid the whole ventilation issue. I put a conduit between the 2 buildings and plan on running 120 off the inverter to the indoor panel. I have tube in the floor in the out building also so it should stay above 40 or at least that is the plan. I figure to heat the building I need to heat the floor to 50 so the water would need to be 60 for the OB, then the water for the house needs to be 80-90 to keep the space around 70. My thought is at 40 the panels will start working sooner and can put heat into the OB, once the OB is 40ish then transfer the water to the house where it can start heating that floor and domestic which I figure can be heated to 160 in the preheat tank then put a mixing valve so there is only 125 going to the fixtures on the domestic side. With the preheat tank that hot I can draw off the tank for a bit at night. I want to try and keep it as minimal as possible and just let it do what it will do, every BTU added through the solar is one I don't have to buy so to speak. Same way with the PV. The plan is the be able to run outside lights all night and what ever is needed inside off the PV. Trying to make it work cheap so there is not as much to pay back, faster ROI.

    I have not had a chance to see any of the videos yet. We are in the calm before the storm right now, supposed to have a blizzard coming in this PM, around noon starting as rain. Radar shows the rain but it doesn't look like much out the window yet. So I may have time when cooped up from the storm or it may cause Issues I need to deal with.
    you have to different projects, I have just the one .....

    running 120 volt from the OD building is a good idea you can run thinner wire .....

    so far my understanding is you need .... solar panels, a control charger coming off of the solar panels to control the solar panels charging of the batteries, an inverter coming off of the batteries to the supply voltage, in your case 120 Volt, supposedly the higher the system voltage ( panels, batteries ) the more efficient the system, less work for the inverter to do, not sure how much of a difference that would make in your case

    budget wise I am probably stuck with the golf cart batteries ...... I stopped by the battery place again today to get a battery for the car and they told me the 6 volt batteries would be better for the set up because the 6 volt batteries have thicker plates and would deep cycle better, guess something that will need to be researched ...

    I think it is complicated figuring out what to use and when, but with a little bit of experience is probably pretty simple ..... you might be able to call a solar supply company ( Renorgy, Grape, or whoever ) tell them your lighting requirements and they could probably tell you what you need and save you a bunch of time trying to figure everything out, I might do that this coming week



    these are the panels I am looking at

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Live-Sol...300W/306246926


    this controller

    https://www.renogy.com/renogy-60-amp...ge-controller/


    a 24 volt inverter / charger is proving to be more difficult to find

  4. #30
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    Have you checked out those panels. I was looking awhile ago and there were 2 different types of panels, one was better than the other. Don’t remember which now, have to go back and research.

  5. #31
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    What do you all do, during the Winter, on Cloudy Days, which by the way, .... Ohio is Famous for Cloudy days, in the Winter?

    I've got no problem having enough Sun light during the Spring/ Summer, here in S.W. Ohio, but, ... To invest a huge amount of $$$ on my own part & expect to get sufficient Electric during the Winter, .... Ain't happenin'.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  6. #32
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    Here's a reasonable way to start.

    https://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar...rid-calculator
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Have you checked out those panels. I was looking awhile ago and there were 2 different types of panels, one was better than the other. Don’t remember which now, have to go back and research.
    monocrystalline and polycrystalline

    https://www.energysage.com/solar/101...-solar-panels/

    I was looking into that, supposedly the monocrystalline are slightly more efficient and smaller, and slightly more expensive, space is a slight concern depending on what my ultimate layout will be ( 6 panels eventually ? ), I need to dig into it deeper and figure out which type will be better on overcast days, which will probably be one of my biggest concerns seeing how I live in beautiful and bright Clevelnd Ohio ! ! !

  8. #34
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    No but some things are like buying a Nautilus rather than an Edge. Sometimes you want to do things just because you want to. <g>

    I built an array of hydronic solar panels to heat hot water for my NJ house. Some part of it was that I wanted to and another part was that I wanted to do it with scrap for the most part.

    I like to imagine that having 160 gallons of 120º solar heated water feeding my tankless HWH saves me operating costs - but I really don't know as I've never run the numbers. And yes; you are correct; on cloudy or snowy days the collected BTU's are less and sometimes zero. But I don't look at what I don't get - I look at what I do get. And that is Not zero. <g>

    And more in line with your actual thought is that I specifically didn't build PV solar because I don't know how to build PV panels. My general interests have been in developing the skills to move heat around. So I started with what I know; pumps ands pipes and fluids and wires and controls.

    Wait; you just made me remember How I came to start on these projects! <g>

    I originally wanted to design a solar heat powered AC system for cooling my house. I kept fiddling with the numbers and they were always too big. I couldn't figure out how to collect enough heat to generate enough cooling for all the cooling my house required.

    So after a while I sat back and mused: Damn! If only I needed less cooling . . . . .

    And a light went on - how can I reduce my Need for cooling?

    So I stopped working on the thermal-powered cooling system and started working on improving the envelope. I added white 4-R siding, sealed, and insulated, and so forth. Then I replaced 14 tons of asphalt roof shingles with 1/2 ton of white solar reflective aluminum standing seam roofing.

    And suddenly I didn't need six tons of air to cool my house - instead I needed just over 2 tons.

    But . . . . the reduction in operating costs then made the thermal powered solar cooling system economically impractical. So I never did it. <g>

    How's that for irony? <g>

    PHM
    ------------



    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    What do you all do, during the Winter, on Cloudy Days, which by the way, .... Ohio is Famous for Cloudy days, in the Winter?

    I've got no problem having enough Sun light during the Spring/ Summer, here in S.W. Ohio, but, ... To invest a huge amount of $$$ on my own part & expect to get sufficient Electric during the Winter, .... Ain't happenin'.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    What do you all do, during the Winter, on Cloudy Days, which by the way, .... Ohio is Famous for Cloudy days, in the Winter?

    I've got no problem having enough Sun light during the Spring/ Summer, here in S.W. Ohio, but, ... To invest a huge amount of $$$ on my own part & expect to get sufficient Electric during the Winter, .... Ain't happenin'.
    at times I only use a small amount of electricity, so I am designing the system to hopefully be off grid a significant amount of time when possible ( spring, summer, fall ), and to be on grid when necessary ..... I also have a small back up generator which can be connected to the system if the grid is completely down and the panels / batteries are too low to operate

    - electricity outages

    - be somewhat green

    - grid down for days or weeks or months ?

    only part of the house will be on the system, figure I will install the system first and then figure out what will fit on the system when I am done once I figure out how it works ( kinda backwards )

    not really planning on getting a return, just looking out for who knows what, plus it would be cool to be somewhat green and also save a few bucks ( and stick it to the man )

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post

    But . . . . the reduction in operating costs then made the thermal powered solar cooling system economically impractical. So I never did it. <g>

    How's that for irony? <g>

    PHM
    ------------
    LOL ...... that is too funny

  11. #37
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    PHM

    just planning on building around a 1,200 watt system, 10 - 120 volt amps ( 4 - 300 watt panels, maybe 6 but probably just 4 ), whatever I can put on the system I will, whatever I cannot I won't, I will figure that part out later once I dive into the numbers and see how the system operates ... 1,200 watts is definitely enough to weather a short, medium, and even long term grid outage ( if need be ), and big enough to operate quite a few small appliances / stuff otherwise ..... just not enough to do the entire house

    I will need to start sizing my batteries ..... probably going with golf cart batteries as you suggested ... probably 6 volt golf cart batteries
    Last edited by hvacskills; 02-23-2019 at 06:23 PM.

  12. #38
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    Aims brand inverter / charger seems to be popping up, this looks like it might work

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIMS-1500-W....c100752.m1982

  13. #39
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    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    No but some things are like buying a Nautilus rather than an Edge. Sometimes you want to do things just because you want to. <g>

    I built an array of hydronic solar panels to heat hot water for my NJ house. Some part of it was that I wanted to and another part was that I wanted to do it with scrap for the most part.

    I like to imagine that having 160 gallons of 120º solar heated water feeding my tankless HWH saves me operating costs - but I really don't know as I've never run the numbers. And yes; you are correct; on cloudy or snowy days the collected BTU's are less and sometimes zero. But I don't look at what I don't get - I look at what I do get. And that is Not zero. <g>

    And more in line with your actual thought is that I specifically didn't build PV solar because I don't know how to build PV panels. My general interests have been in developing the skills to move heat around. So I started with what I know; pumps ands pipes and fluids and wires and controls.

    Wait; you just made me remember How I came to start on these projects! <g>

    I originally wanted to design a solar heat powered AC system for cooling my house. I kept fiddling with the numbers and they were always too big. I couldn't figure out how to collect enough heat to generate enough cooling for all the cooling my house required.

    So after a while I sat back and mused: Damn! If only I needed less cooling . . . . .

    And a light went on - how can I reduce my Need for cooling?

    So I stopped working on the thermal-powered cooling system and started working on improving the envelope. I added white 4-R siding, sealed, and insulated, and so forth. Then I replaced 14 tons of asphalt roof shingles with 1/2 ton of white solar reflective aluminum standing seam roofing.

    And suddenly I didn't need six tons of air to cool my house - instead I needed just over 2 tons.

    But . . . . the reduction in operating costs then made the thermal powered solar cooling system economically impractical. So I never did it. <g>

    How's that for irony? <g>

    PHM
    ------------
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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