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  1. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I said in regards to the environment 2sac.

    Using your "logic" how good is coal as a fuel for the environment? Do I have to tell you all the harm and lives cost? It would be just as easy to discuss the problems with oil 2sac

    You survived that and you will survive more 2sac
    https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/F...2p2_020246.pdf

    http://chemicallygreen.com/corn-ethanol-biofuel/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64032117306871

    http://www.ethanolproducer.com/artic...se-for-concern

    Can't live without water
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  2. #158
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  3. #159
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    Beenthere is worried about the birds now all of a sudden.

    Wayne is worried that there won't be enough CO2 for plants and 2sac is worried about everything. I never knew we had so many treehuggers here
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  4. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Yeah coal and oil are great for the above aren't they?
    A better option...maybe. I'm not worried about water, I live 20 miles from Lake Michigan and will have enough clean water until the day I die. People living west of the Mississippi, don't have that luxury. The more runoff from pesticides and fertilizers will make clean drinking water a fantasy for those people. FORCED to buy drinking water at the current price of $10 a gallon so they can pay $2.00 for a gallon of gas....You can't fool math
    Officially, Down for the count

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  5. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    Dries out the brains of people and then they become easy to manipulate.

    I'd like to see actual numbers that show ethanol is a positive.
    You are implying that you are going to manipulate somebody then ask for something that has already been posted?
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  6. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    A better option...maybe. I'm not worried about water, I live 20 miles from Lake Michigan and will have enough clean water until the day I die. People living west of the Mississippi, don't have that luxury. The more runoff from pesticides and fertilizers will make clean drinking water a fantasy for those people. FORCED to buy drinking water at the current price of $10 a gallon so they can pay $2.00 for a gallon of gas....You can't fool math
    Runoff from corn in Iowa etc has nothing to do with the western states and their water. Look up the Continental Divide.

    I didn't say it was perfect or even long term. I suggested it was a bridge fuel and the land would be better used for wind and solar in the future. It is certainly better than oil and coal.
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  7. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Runoff from corn in Iowa etc has nothing to do with the western states and their water. Look up the Continental Divide.

    I didn't say it was perfect or even long term. I suggested it was a bridge fuel and the land would be better used for wind and solar in the future. It is certainly better than oil and coal.
    So let's just destroy what little we have
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  8. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    So let's just destroy what little we have
    You are missing the point it seems.
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  9. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    You are missing the point it seems.
    What point? You continue to say corn is an all around better fuel source for the environment. I don't think so. Is there another point?
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  10. #166
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    Sorry to intrude......But, while petrol based fuel is important, plastics are right up there. Plastics can't be replaced w/o huge problems. And they cause problems just like gasoline. But we need/want them.
    Along with all the other distillates we use everyday. Tar to perfume.
    Imagine a world w/o plastics. I know there's an easy comeback for that.
    The comic George Carlin said "God made Man because he (God) hadn't made any plastic and man was needed for that." a near quote.
    There is also the economic reason. That it takes one gallon of gas to refine, bottle, deliver one gallon of gas.
    That's a good return on investment. A really good return considering where it came from.

    Next there are those, my self included, that like fuel burning performance vehicles that go real fast. Nothing autonomous in my perfect world.

    There's nothing about using farm land for fuel that makes sense. Even the farmers know that. They will ride this horse not because it's a good ride but because it's the only ride. Dollar for subsidized dollar.
    Once a farmer was asked how long will ethanol be profitable to produce? He said about 5 years. He already had a hunch it was another political hack job.
    Give me a relay with enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

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  11. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    What point? You continue to say corn is an all around better fuel source for the environment. I don't think so. Is there another point?
    As opposed to what it was replacing.
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  12. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Sorry to intrude......But, while petrol based fuel is important, plastics are right up there. Plastics can't be replaced w/o huge problems. And they cause problems just like gasoline. But we need/want them.
    Along with all the other distillates we use everyday. Tar to perfume.
    Imagine a world w/o plastics. I know there's an easy comeback for that.
    The comic George Carlin said "God made Man because he (God) hadn't made any plastic and man was needed for that." a near quote.
    There is also the economic reason. That it takes one gallon of gas to refine, bottle, deliver one gallon of gas.
    That's a good return on investment. A really good return considering where it came from.

    Next there are those, my self included, that like fuel burning performance vehicles that go real fast. Nothing autonomous in my perfect world.

    There's nothing about using farm land for fuel that makes sense. Even the farmers know that. They will ride this horse not because it's a good ride but because it's the only ride. Dollar for subsidized dollar.
    Once a farmer was asked how long will ethanol be profitable to produce? He said about 5 years. He already had a hunch it was another political hack job.
    It is not a long term solution imo but it does make btu sense even if you or a farmer don't think so. It lessens pollution from autos, is carbon neutral. It has pluses whether you realize it or not.

    Fracking and natural gas have similar pluses and drawbacks. No current fuel is perfect.

    Oil companies get subsidized plenty and nobody is talking about that for some reason
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  13. #169
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    My answer remains the same. Math doesn't lie. There are more pro's to fossil fuels and more cons to corn. I'm not opposed to alternative fuel sources. I was hoping for an explosion in biodiesel...never happened. Hoping for advancements in hydrogen...never happened. Natural gas and LP...never happened. You know why? Because the oil lobbyists have the politicians in their pocket. Corn fuel would fail miserably if it wasn't putting money in someones pocket.
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