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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Pawtucket, RI
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    Stupid On-site Engineer Trying to get me to do something really stupid.

    IDK what is wrong with Engineers these days. Im on a Pharmaceutical Build right now and i have about 25 Liebert units im installing. the condensate system is what we end up fighting about. He wants blow downs and vents and t-y's on the condensate line (with condensate pumps installed) in order to tie into a common drain line. I Keep telling him that this is not plumbing code i am applying to, Im mechanical code. i even refer him to 10.01 in the mass plumbing code where it says that nothing in the plumbing code is referencing anything on mechanical systems. and i call out the condensate section of the mechanical code. its like talking to a wall. you dont install vents on a drain line that has a condensate pump. especially if the equipment is internally trapped and the drain is on the positive side of the blower. its a case of the never ending battle between the engineers and the techs.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Billington Heights, NY
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    21,625
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    will his plan hurt the equipment or the drain? No? Do it his way! Yes? Get it in writing that nothing about the install is your fault.

    Problem solved.

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  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by puron1 View Post
    IDK what is wrong with Engineers these days. Im on a Pharmaceutical Build right now and i have about 25 Liebert units im installing. the condensate system is what we end up fighting about. He wants blow downs and vents and t-y's on the condensate line (with condensate pumps installed) in order to tie into a common drain line. I Keep telling him that this is not plumbing code i am applying to, Im mechanical code. i even refer him to 10.01 in the mass plumbing code where it says that nothing in the plumbing code is referencing anything on mechanical systems. and i call out the condensate section of the mechanical code. its like talking to a wall. you dont install vents on a drain line that has a condensate pump. especially if the equipment is internally trapped and the drain is on the positive side of the blower. its a case of the never ending battle between the engineers and the techs.
    It is "NOT YOUR JOB" to call him Stupid and argue with him. It is YOUR JOB TO Build it as per Approved Design Blueprints ,UNTIL YOU become the Design Engineer that is !!!. Now if you see a problem, point it out to the powers that be, and move on.

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  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    6,920
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    Unless someone is going to die or get hurt, do it his way. Even if it hurts the equipment. But always document it very well. Email works well. Paper is better.
    "Right" is not the same as "Wise".

    Don't step on my favorite part of the Constitution just to point out your favorite part.

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  8. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    22
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    Quote Originally Posted by puron1 View Post
    IDK what is wrong with Engineers these days. Im on a Pharmaceutical Build right now and i have about 25 Liebert units im installing. the condensate system is what we end up fighting about. He wants blow downs and vents and t-y's on the condensate line (with condensate pumps installed) in order to tie into a common drain line. I Keep telling him that this is not plumbing code i am applying to, Im mechanical code. i even refer him to 10.01 in the mass plumbing code where it says that nothing in the plumbing code is referencing anything on mechanical systems. and i call out the condensate section of the mechanical code. its like talking to a wall. you dont install vents on a drain line that has a condensate pump. especially if the equipment is internally trapped and the drain is on the positive side of the blower. its a case of the never ending battle between the engineers and the techs.
    There are no shortage of those. Try an architect who thought ductwork running a certain way would look nice and add to the overall look of the "geared income" unit?

    Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk

  9. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    32,177
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    Paper trail with his sign-off and your perspective, with code references. Done and done.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







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  11. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    What do the plans and specs call for? If the drain system is not covered and you can prove him wrong and if he is the design engineer's resident go over his head in writing. Some of the resident engineers are stupid and arrogant. Give the design engineer a chance to do it right. In many cases miscellaneous piping (2" and smaller) is not shown on the drawings and is left up to the installer and is required to be done by code. Prove your point respectfully and give the designer a chance.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  13. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Well.....my sign-off would require his superior to sign off on it as well, and I would also say, "with all due respect, if you don't wish to sign off on this, then you need to investigate it and get back to me with what you're going to require, and then we will sign off on "that."
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







  14. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    n.y
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    do what he wants but get him to sign off on it.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Walk a mile in his shoes...

    Have him sign off is not needed for your benefit. Talk to the fellow. He has a spec book three or four inches thick.

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    Ignore Scoobie's advice!! The resident engineer is there to make sure the facility is built per the plans and specs. He does not have the final say unless the design engineer (the engineer of record) backs him. The specifications require you to install per code and the design engineer can and will hold you to that. You have to cover this in writing.
    I have dealt with this issue from both sides and know what can and does happen. If the design engineer is properly and fully informed he will quietly straighten the field engineer out if he is wrong. If they are both wrong and you are covered in writing any code violations enforced belong to them. I was a design engineer for 25 years and would be pissed if I found out you did something you knew was in violation of the codes and didn't give me a chance to address it before it became a problem.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Ignore Scoobie's advice!! The resident engineer is there to make sure the facility is built per the plans and specs. He does not have the final say unless the design engineer (the engineer of record) backs him. The specifications require you to install per code and the design engineer can and will hold you to that. You have to cover this in writing.
    I have dealt with this issue from both sides and know what can and does happen. If the design engineer is properly and fully informed he will quietly straighten the field engineer out if he is wrong. If they are both wrong and you are covered in writing any code violations enforced belong to them. I was a design engineer for 25 years and would be pissed if I found out you did something you knew was in violation of the codes and didn't give me a chance to address it before it became a problem.
    I have dealt with this issue from the contractor side many times as well. I have always been able to talk with guys like this without sending the email calling them out, copying 25 people, blah, blah, blah.

    Whatever method works you just want to do something stupid.

  18. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    The engineer of record is the one that counts. You don't have to email endless parties. Changing the design without written instructions opens the door for real problems. The approach to resolve this is send an RFI.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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