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  1. #14
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    If this is a bid job and the specs and contract documents do not call for this, then have your forman etc submit an RFI (request for information) through the GC.

    If the owner really wants it, and after the RFI is addressed that will determine if this is a change order or covered.

    RFI gives the EOR a chance to officially comment and let's the owners voice be heard
    Last edited by Suncity; 02-18-2019 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #15
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    Apr 2003
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    Thats what a project manager is for let him decide its his job.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by servicefitter View Post
    Thats what a project manager is for let him decide its his job.
    Absolutely!

  4. #17
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    Feb 2016
    Location
    Louisburg Kansas
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    I got a call from a field resident that they had started up the steam plant and the spring hangers on the main steam of the plant were bottomed out and therefore he and the contractor thought the springs were undersized. The field resident and the contractor's startup guy neither one knew the hanger sizes had been questioned previously by the manufacturer's pipe support rep because he missed the fact that the owner wanted double rod hangers on certain size pipe and that required two springs instead of one. I went through every spring with the rep and all were verified to be correct. Knowing that I knew the main steam had to be water logged and it was. All that was needed was to drain the water out and clean the strainers. What do you guys think would have happened if the field resident and or the contractor's project manager had acted on what they thought and not called me?
    RFI'S are for the purpose of providing the information needed for what ever reason and not considered calling anyone out.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    I got a call from a field resident that they had started up the steam plant and the spring hangers on the main steam of the plant were bottomed out and therefore he and the contractor thought the springs were undersized. The field resident and the contractor's startup guy neither one knew the hanger sizes had been questioned previously by the manufacturer's pipe support rep because he missed the fact that the owner wanted double rod hangers on certain size pipe and that required two springs instead of one. I went through every spring with the rep and all were verified to be correct. Knowing that I knew the main steam had to be water logged and it was. All that was needed was to drain the water out and clean the strainers. What do you guys think would have happened if the field resident and or the contractor's project manager had acted on what they thought and not called me?
    RFI'S are for the purpose of providing the information needed for what ever reason and not considered calling anyone out.
    The project PM for the contractor should coordinate all RFI...that's what servicefitter meant I believe.

    Wayne, interesting job

    How did the main become so waterlogged? Did they not boiw down at the end runs of mains before and after steam stations on start up?

  6. #19
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    Feb 2016
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    Louisburg Kansas
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    Suncity this was a steam plant with four 250,000 PPH boilers. They should have done start-up with steam trap strainers removed but didn't. They didn't even blow the crap out. When I ask the field resident if they blew down the strainers he said yes but they were clean because nothing came out. At that point I knew the main steam was water logged because like I told him something should have come out.
    I agree from the contractor's side the PM should be notified and handle the problem by RFI. The reason for my last post was mainly the answer given in post #10.
    One thing I didn't mention was the field resident was an employee of the owner.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #20
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    Apr 2003
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    St. Louis
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Suncity this was a steam plant with four 250,000 PPH boilers. They should have done start-up with steam trap strainers removed but didn't. They didn't even blow the crap out. When I ask the field resident if they blew down the strainers he said yes but they were clean because nothing came out. At that point I knew the main steam was water logged because like I told him something should have come out.
    I agree from the contractor's side the PM should be notified and handle the problem by RFI. The reason for my last post was mainly the answer given in post #10.
    One thing I didn't mention was the field resident was an employee of the owner.
    Boilers didn't have factory start up? Who cooked them out? Why would you pull trap strainers and take a chance to plug up the orifices? Shame on your boss not having a start up serviceman to protect their interest and what a badly missed opportunity to learn. Can't hardly believe a job of that type wouldn't be commissioned. Skid mounted boilers running high pressure 250plus?
    Last edited by servicefitter; 02-18-2019 at 10:32 PM.

  8. #21
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    Feb 2016
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    Louisburg Kansas
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    This was 1976. We did the design for a big company that had a large staff of engineers. None of them at this site knew squat about designing steam plants but they were constantly getting in the way. These weren't skid mounted boilers they were top hung but I don't remember the design pressure (I think 250 but not sure). The owner took full responsibility for a lot of things including start-up. I don't know who all was on site at start-up.
    To give you an idea of how this project went I rejected the boiler feed pumps 6 times. After the sixth time the owners project engineer called me and instructed me to approve the pumps as noted and I could make any notes I wished. Our company agreed to approve as noted if instructed to do so in writing. The pump manufacturer had complained to the owner that the only reason I rejected his pumps was I was picking on him. We approved the pumps as noted and one of the notes was that when the pump piping was determined I was to be sent a copy prior to installation so the pipe stresses could be analyzed. They ignored that note and all others. On initial start-up the pump casings cracked in half. There is a lot of other things that happened that you would hardly believe.
    Top brass at this company finally brought in a really sharp engineer to determine how so many things went wrong. He began calling me for copies of shop drawings and correspondence. The first call I got from him he was not friendly and wanted the feed pump submittals. I sent him all 7 copies of the pump submittals and all pump correspondence. Every call I got after that he got more and more friendly until he finally told me his own company was the problem. Our records were flawless and there was a solid paper trail and they dropped the idea of a law suit.
    At his direction we got another boiler system design. Nobody got in the way on that one.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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