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Thread: New steam table has no safety?

  1. #1
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    New steam table has no safety?

    Is this really a thing in the industry or did someone get some Chinese junk? We have a new steam table, and it has no safety thermocouple on the standing pilot - just a separate metering screw from the main burner. The main burner has an adjustable air shutter that can't be fixed in place. Supposed to be for an LP application.

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    Is it certified by UL or CSA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    Is it certified by UL or CSA?

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    Couldn't see a label anywhere.

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    We would be forbidden from installing that in Canada with no certification and immediate red tag if found.

    Not sure what your AHJ says.

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    We would be forbidden from installing that in Canada with no certification and immediate red tag if found.

    Not sure what your AHJ says.

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    I found it with the pilot blown out and a slight smell of gas, so yeah I shut it off immediately and will be recommending a replacement, or at least a retrofit with a proper valve. These kitchen appliances aren't my wheelhouse, but it didn't seem quite right to me so I thought I would ask.

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    You might want to check first if your are even allowed to update any parts. Could be opening yourself to a lot of liability.

    No sticker here means no certification. Changing parts does not get it certified unless Gas Safety authority says so, which would likely be UL/CSA certification.

    Do you have a manufacturer and model number???

    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    I found it with the pilot blown out and a slight smell of gas, so yeah I shut it off immediately and will be recommending a replacement, or at least a retrofit with a proper valve. These kitchen appliances aren't my wheelhouse, but it didn't seem quite right to me so I thought I would ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    You might want to check first if your are even allowed to update any parts. Could be opening yourself to a lot of liability.

    No sticker here means no certification. Changing parts does not get it certified unless Gas Safety authority says so, which would likely be UL/CSA certification.

    Do you have a manufacturer and model number???



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    I stopped back in to get some pictures. There's no certifications at all, except the label that says NSF (lol). There's no stickers or nameplates that have the model number or gas specifications. Also got some pictures of the hookup job, total joke. Count the violations:

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    Here is a quote from their contact page:

    "The respect customer, welcome the electricity to post the consultation, we will be sincere for you serve!"

    Lol. They claim they also manufacture equipment....I am surprised the code officials in New York have not shut these guys down.

    Apparently all orders must be faxed....lmao


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  11. #9
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    That looks like a mess you got yourself in. I'm not familiar with L&J Manufacturing. Like Baldloyd said, I wouldn't modify ANYTHING! Contact the manufacturer. Do what THEY say...and get it in writing.

    FWIW: I only saw one or two steam GAS tables. It's not an enclosed setup (like an oven is), so they didn't have safeties either. They weren't under a hood either.

    Now you have me wondering about that... Maybe one of the other kitchen techs here knows more than I do about that.
    Last edited by ECtofix; 02-03-2019 at 08:10 PM.
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  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    Here is a quote from their contact page:

    "The respect customer, welcome the electricity to post the consultation, we will be sincere for you serve!"

    Lol. They claim they also manufacture equipment....I am surprised the code officials in New York have not shut these guys down.

    Apparently all orders must be faxed....lmao


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    As long as its not sold in NYC, FDNY has No Jurisdiction. Its not Manufactured here its imported.

    That is a classic example of CHEEP Crap that is flooding the market. Legal to buy but not hook up!

    No supports on the gas line from the ceiling?
    No connectors in the electrical box?
    Cant use that flex hose here!

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  15. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    As long as its not sold in NYC, FDNY has No Jurisdiction. Its not Manufactured here its imported.

    That is a classic example of CHEEP Crap that is flooding the market. Legal to buy but not hook up!

    No supports on the gas line from the ceiling?
    No connectors in the electrical box?
    Cant use that flex hose here!
    Correction:

    As long as its not Installed in NYC

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    you for got welded on brackets on the iron gas line a BIG no no in my area

  17. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctech View Post
    you for got welded on brackets on the iron gas line a BIG no no in my area
    What you're seeing is the unit's gas manifold. Welded-on brackets is standard practice in ANY gas appliance. That manifold was made in the factory like that.


    On the other hand, copper tubing is NOT. There would've (or should've) been stainless steel or aluminum tubing from the factory to supply each burner.
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  18. #14
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    I don't know if that thing is ok or not. The incoming gas piping certainly could use some supports, that yellow hose probably isn't good enough, and it appears to be missing it's low pressure gas regulator that I think it's supposed to have.

    I just wanted to point out though that lots of cooking equipment is still made today without thermocouples or other safety devices. Things like stoves and grills and griddles and wok burners, etc. Probably things with the burners on top now that I think about it, since most ranges I see have no safety's for the top burners but they do have a thermocouple for the oven part.

    Like I said, I don't know if that thing is OK or not (probably not because of the lack of certifications), but not having safety's doesn't automatically mean its wrong.
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  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammoniadog View Post
    I don't know if that thing is ok or not. The incoming gas piping certainly could use some supports, that yellow hose probably isn't good enough, and it appears to be missing it's low pressure gas regulator that I think it's supposed to have.

    I just wanted to point out though that lots of cooking equipment is still made today without thermocouples or other safety devices. Things like stoves and grills and griddles and wok burners, etc. Probably things with the burners on top now that I think about it, since most ranges I see have no safety's for the top burners but they do have a thermocouple for the oven part.

    Like I said, I don't know if that thing is OK or not (probably not because of the lack of certifications), but not having safety's doesn't automatically mean its wrong.
    Interesting to hear this, because that's why I posted - I'm not a kitchen tech so I don't know what the state-of-the-art is. It just seems absurd to me since I only work on sealed combustion appliances.
    The guy that installed the gas line claims that the flex hose has some sort of excess flow valve built-in which I very much doubt. The line is regulated at a main regulator, but the main is set for 12.5" not the usual 11" or so.

  20. #16
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    I don't usually deal with propane, but as far as I know all cooking equipment needs some type of additional regulator to bring the gas pressure down to the proper manifold pressure (which is usually 3-1/2" W.C. for natural gas).

    Some units have a combination gas valve inside that have a built in regulator, so they are fine, but the stuff with no thermocouples usually need an "inches to inches" regulator installed externally.
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  22. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    Interesting to hear this, because that's why I posted - I'm not a kitchen tech so I don't know what the state-of-the-art is. It just seems absurd to me since I only work on sealed combustion appliances.
    The guy that installed the gas line claims that the flex hose has some sort of excess flow valve built-in which I very much doubt. The line is regulated at a main regulator, but the main is set for 12.5" not the usual 11" or so.
    Thats a standard flex gas connector for a residence same as the steam table itself. Not allowed in a commercial kitchen....

    If someone pulls that table out the gas line is not secured and may break....Not allowed.

    Flexible connectors on kit equipment then the equipment gets cables or chains limiting how far they can be pulled out!

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  24. #18
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    Maby so but could have done a better cleaner job on the welds this thing reeks of cheap china pride knock off of the real unit made some whare else

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    Quote Originally Posted by pctech View Post
    Maby so but could have done a better cleaner job on the welds this thing reeks of cheap china pride knock off of the real unit made some whare else
    Hell......That costs money!

    You get what you pay for!!!

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  27. #20
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    Some new griddles are manufactured with certification and only having adjustable pilots. They do sit under a commercial hood though. Even with the hood off there's still a draft.
    Read the bottom line in the instructions. This is from the Star Manufactureing instructions. Built in Smithville TN.
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    Last edited by VTP99; 02-13-2019 at 10:14 AM.

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