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Thread: Solx energy

  1. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solxenergy View Post
    In closing here, I just would like to say that this technology is disruptive, not yet mainstream, and often misunderstood. Over the years we have had the pleasure of turning on the mental light bulb for many PHD’s and Engineers who have had negative or confused initial responses. Just because you’ve never seen it before and don’t fully understand it for yourself… does not mean it’s a fraud, it just means you may have more to learn.
    Would you be willing to explain it then? Presuming this is a viable technology, you must forgive the hostile attitude towards your product. The HVAC&R industry has been forever the target of various magical additives, add-ons and other devices. So when a product comes along with incredible promises but without an explanation, we all tend to take the "here we go again" perspective.

    From your "How it works" page, I can see you are putting a solar collector in the refrigerant line after the compressor on a heat pump system. When in heating mode, this makes sense. You are adding more energy to the refrigerant loop, which translates into more heat into the structure during daylight hours.

    When in cooling mode, how does adding heat to the system increase efficiency? It seems all you are doing is adding more heat for the condenser to reject. While that would increase the heat transfer rate of the condenser, the mass flow is still the same and there is more energy to reject...thus needing a higher rate to reject the extra heat. How does that result in more subcooling?

    Does the condenser need to be oversized? What if the condenser is dirty, scaled up (evap condensers) or otherwise has its heat transfer effectiveness degraded? The explanations I have found only go into descriptions of raising the DT on the condenser except your coworker, "solx-eu", who described the Mpemba effect.

    Also, why is it necessary to have a variable speed compressor?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    5
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    Why do you install your thermosyphons UPSIDE DOWN...

    Quote Originally Posted by solx-eu View Post
    The effect of Solx is a chemical effect, not a thermodynamic one. Unfortunately some refrigeration engineers think, the smallest element is a gas or fluid, run their commonly known formulas, base everything on the Mollier diagramm and completely ignore, that behind all the formulas in thermodynamics there is always chemical stuff going on. Phase change which is that important in DX systems, is a chemical process on the basies of Van-der Waals forces. For understanding thermodynamics in depth you have to look into chemistry.
    This is interesting, Solex is not a thermodynamic effect. You claim to add heat to the refrigerant, thereby promoting a chemical change? somehow that promotes heat transfer or phase change. Then you take a shot at refrigeration engineers.
    I am a refrigeration engineer, engineers do learn about Van-der Walls forces, dipole dipole, London dispersion forces, Hydrogen bonding, and other interesting refrigerant chemistry. This knowledge aides us in the design of heat transfer equipment. The Mollier diagrams, PH diagrams, TS diagrams and PV diagrams that we engineers so love to use, are created by test. These are the properties of the refrigerants as determined by test, I do not understand how you believe that we are ignoring chemistry. If there are variations to this data or new knowledge that shows it to be incorrect, please provide links to the papers, so we can increase our basic understanding of heat transfer. I love learning new things.

    What I truly do not understand is why you install your "solar collectors" UPSIDE DOWN.. Please read the installation manuals supplied with the evacuated tube solar collectors.
    I will quote a couple, but they are all the same....

    "Stiebel Eltron, Inc... The collectors are to be installed so that the distributor tube is in the top position. Please make sure that the tubes are oriented towards the sun.The min. and max. installation angle should be from 20° to 90°." Most of your collectors are installed with the distributor tube in the BOTTOM position.

    ht products "The collector must not be installed upside down (tubes pointing upwards) or with tubes lying horizontally. The heat pipes will not function."
    This is the way your tubes are installed. Header at the bottom tubes pointed upwards, so they will not function.

    Apricus AP Solar Collector Installation and Operation Manual (Int Edition) Rev. 1.5 "The collector will not operate if installed with the manifold at the bottom and tubes pointing upwards (up-side-down). " again your collectors are installed with the manifold at the bottom, so they will not operate.

    The evacuated tube collectors shown in your photo galleries are almost all installed upside down with the discharge line at the BOTTOM. Others are shown horizontal. As these are thermosyphon style pipes, they transfer heat from the bottom to the top... This means they will not transfer solar energy into the discharge gas as your literature claims.
    If they do not heat the refrigerant, what do they do... The ones shown in the horizontal position (and there are several shown that way) will do nothing. The ones shown installed upside down, may remove heat from the discharge line and transfer it up into the tubes. However, the evacuated glass tube will prevent most of the heat from being rejected to the ambient as radiant heat transfer in this temperature range is long wave, to which glass is opaque. The evacuated tube will reduce most convection to a minimum.

    You claim that they only work with variable capacity compressors. How does the heat know that the compressors are variable? Please explain....
    How does the Van-Der Waals chemical forces change when the refrigerant is heated, in such a way that the refrigerant condenses sooner? the current equations do not show this.... Please explain...
    Why do your thermosyphon heat pipes work upside down when manufacturers say they will not?... Please explain...
    So much to learn.

    You state that refrigeration engineers rely on Mollier diagrams and well understood thermodynamic equations to calculate heat transfer. I absolutely agree with you on this fact, I have been making things cold for over 45 years.
    I do not understand why your knowledge of chemical thermodynamics allows you to believe that thermosyphon heat exchangers will work "upside down" when the manufacturers of these devices CLEARLY state that they will not, or why we should believe that this will save energy, when classical thermodynamics says that it will not... Please explain, I am looking forward to an opportunity to increase my understanding of thermodynamics.

    Gerry P.Eng

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    13
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    Regarding the AZ residence, Solx has agreed to replace the incompatible 4 ton variable speed drive AC units with AC units (heat pumps) to mate with SolX solar thermal condensers. Installation is pending. Once installed and commissioned, the performance and results can be shared upon request.

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