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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    86
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    rip- off- liars - permits

    I'm a consumer doing my due diligence

    I am here in Florida I had two people come out to give me estimates on replacing my package unit air conditioning system for my two-year-old manufactured home.

    Come to find out these guys are telling me that the pre-owned units that I wanted to buy don't need to be permitted because they are 13 seer and 4 years old and they don't require a permit now because all the changes and requirements have changed and I cannot even get a permit for a 4 year old package unit.

    so I called the County permit department here in Lakeland Florida and I was told that what they told me was a lie and that I need to be very careful because if I a replace my package unit air conditioning system and it's not permitted from the county that could be a problem If I sell the house or it burns down I can have big problems.

    I'm being very diligent and careful I'm tired of these Crooks.

    But I'm also tired of these larger air conditioning companies charging $xxxx for a package unit that I can buy BRAND NEW on eBay brand new for $xxxxx

    I had 3 big well know ac companies stop here to tell me what they recommend and also checking their prices.

    when they roll up in 2019 transit vans I think oh oh this will be expensive! someone has to pay for that new 40,000 van...........

    Thats when I decided to look at some pre owned almost new units to try to save a few bucks. I am taking my time comparing and looking at all my options.

    I'm really pissed that these guys that look very respectable come to my home and then lie to me telling me that they are HVAC installers and they don't even have a license.

    They give you good guys a bad reputation!! and I thought car sales people were sleezy... Gees, some of these so called "hvac" guys are just as bad!! and these companies selling $xxxx units for $xxxx!!! WHAT A RIP OFF!!

    I understand installing costs $$ and they have to make a profit.

    BUT..... I can buy THE SAME PACKAGE UNIT THESE AC COMPANIES HAVE AND RECOMMEND I PURCHASE I FIND THE EXACT SAME UNIT NEW ON EBAY for $xxxxxx
    cant I find a licensed HVAC company to install for around a grand?? that seems fair to me...... xxxxxx dollars....... seems like a rip off!!

    Lastly what Licensing do I need to be sure the installer has? I forgot what I was told. They need a certain license to install I can call back and ask but if you know and want to enlighten me thats great. Thanks!!

    fyi.. I am not going to try to "save a few bucks" and hire just anyone. I want it done right and you can buy an expensive unit and have it installed crappy and you'll have problems or you can buy a cheaper unit and have it installed the right way and it'll last much longer. My point is I know The installation is just as important as the unit you buy.

    I'm not going to cut corners but I'm not going to pay $xxxxx for an air conditioner that I can get for xxxxx
    Last edited by Dad; 02-01-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida
    Posts
    2,948
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    There is no getting around it, you need a permit. Now, if you purchase on Ebay new, you will not normally get a warranty. If you buy used, you're taking a chance. New unit installed by a contractor yields a 10 yr. parts warranty. The installed price you stated seems high but I am not there to inspect your ductwork, electrical, whether a pad is needed, hurricane clamps, finishing between the unit and the home, and assorted other supplies. Plus, the contractor normally gives a year labor warranty. Also, there is a difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump. As of Feb 1, (today) most manufacturers have increased the cost of their equipment.

    We have not even addressed the costs a contractor must pay to stay in business such as licensing, insurance on the license, vehicle insurance, worker's comp,etc. There is much more than meets the eye. Please see attached explanation. Also, the moderators frown upon posting prices.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Doug

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,944
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    Is the company on ebay going to warranty the unit you purchase? NO they will not.

    Will the manufacturer warranty the unit you purchase on ebay? NO they will not.

    Will any reputable HVAC company install and warranty the unit you purchase on ebay? NO they will not.

    So may I ask why you think any of these companies should not charge what is takes to cover all their overhead costs (which are much more than you think), and still make a profit?

    Do you haggle with your Dentist or Doctor about what you pay them? You can find those same services in Mexico cheaper.

    We are glad you understand that a quality installation is very important, and companies like that have highly skilled techs that aren’t going to work for minimum wage, nor is the company going to install a system priced with an ebay product.

    The bottom line is you get what you pay for.
    Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Piney Flats, Tn.
    Posts
    1,937
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    OMG. I agree wholly with you! A freakin new van are you kidding me? Why that crappy 20 year old van that they can get started twice a week and can go nearly 5 miles is plenty good enough for us. We don't expect them to show up the day they promise as we expect to take off work and get a call saying the van broke down again. This is what we want! No reliable transportation for us no sir. We often call in to work because our car broke down and we still have our great jobs with all the perks. Freakin new vans who needs them? Not you and me!
    Last edited by Dad; 02-01-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Broomall, PA
    Posts
    2,504
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    When you talked to the County and told them people are trying to do work without a permit, did you give them their names?
    What did the county say?

    Why do you need a 2 year old package unit replaced?

    The price is the price, for a complete installation. You can shop around and get your quotes, but complaining that you know what things cost is not going to get you anywhere with legitimate contractors who do quality work.

    Do you go into a restaurant and complain about the fact that you know what you can buy these ingredients for in the grocery store?

    How do you like your Phone? Probably $20 to manufacture by some 12 year old factory worker, yet you'll pay up to $1000.

    Not anyone who owns a business can afford to work for what you feel are a fair day's wages.

    You think a grand is a good wage for at least 2 guys, all day, removing and installing a new one. Providing all their own tools, transportation, ladders, gas, insurance, wages benefits. Wear and tear on the vehicle. Plus all the misc. parts you won't provide. Then get rid of the old unit, commission the new unit.

    What happens if ebay sends you a dud? Is ebay going to send you another one, and pay to have it replaced?

    Lay off the edibles.
    Uh...Google it yourself!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    22,944
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    Just the customer I want.
    CHEEP
    Buy a unit on Flea-Bay and want me to install it.
    Takes away profit on the sale
    Cuts my labor down
    Wants a full warranty

    Yep
    Exactly the customer I want!

    Let me ask you did you tell these thieves that you would supply old worn out crap?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Piney Flats, Tn.
    Posts
    1,937
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Let me ask you did you tell these thieves that you would supply old worn out crap?


    LOL!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    86
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    Thread Starter
    The units I looked at on ebay DO HAVE a warranty I called the manufacturers. The only way they will warranty it ( parts only warranty) is if I have a licensed installer install it. I looked at several units on ebay, Goodman, Broan, and intertherm and Maytag.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    22,944
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    Quote Originally Posted by kram63 View Post
    The units I looked at on ebay DO HAVE a warranty I called the manufacturers. The only way they will warranty it ( parts only warranty) is if I have a licensed installer install it. I looked at several units on ebay, Goodman, Broan, and intertherm and Maytag.
    Amazon Prime is cheaper and next day delivery

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    40,803
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    Ya know...

    I wonder if a properly educated professional person that has the morality to do the job RIGHT...
    Would work somewhere that:
    *Gave them a rust bucket to drive...
    *Paid them minimum wage...
    *Did not provide insurance for them and their family...
    *How about commercial insurance on the van...
    *How about General Liability insurance on the company...
    *How about Workmans Comp insurance (if the worker gets hurt moving that 400#+ unit around)...
    *Did not provide some form of continuing education (the new units are going electronic... Larry, Darrel, and Darel are not electronically educated)...
    *Advertising... how did you find the company...
    *Permit fees...
    *Inspection fees...
    *Licensing fees...
    *C E (continueing education classes)...
    And a host more expenses.

    As RunDawg said...

    You get what you pay for...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    40,803
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    Quote Originally Posted by kram63 View Post
    The units I looked at on ebay DO HAVE a warranty I called the manufacturers. The only way they will warranty it ( parts only warranty) is if I have a licensed installer install it. I looked at several units on ebay, Goodman, Broan, and intertherm and Maytag.
    Sadly... those brands have a less than stellar reputation in the industry...
    The reason is... they are installed by folks that do not know what they are doing.

    Go to the company website for each of those brands...
    You will most likely find some terms of a warranty if purchased online.

    You see... there is more to installing heating and AC... than it appears.

    And if it is installed incorrectly...
    *It will cost MORE to run (energy costs)...
    *It will need MORE maintenance...
    *And the life of the unit will be lower.

    The manufacturers understand this...
    So they protect themselves by limiting the warranty unless a PRO installs it.

    Again... you get what you pay for.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    86
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by STEVEusaPA View Post
    When you talked to the County and told them people are trying to do work without a permit, did you give them their names?
    What did the county say?

    Why do you need a 2 year old package unit replaced?

    The price is the price, for a complete installation. You can shop around and get your quotes, but complaining that you know what things cost is not going to get you anywhere with legitimate contractors who do quality work.

    Do you go into a restaurant and complain about the fact that you know what you can buy these ingredients for in the grocery store?

    How do you like your Phone? Probably $20 to manufacture by some 12 year old factory worker, yet you'll pay up to $1000.

    Not anyone who owns a business can afford to work for what you feel are a fair day's wages.

    You think a grand is a good wage for at least 2 guys, all day, removing and installing a new one. Providing all their own tools, transportation, ladders, gas, insurance, wages benefits. Wear and tear on the vehicle. Plus all the misc. parts you won't provide. Then get rid of the old unit, commission the new unit.

    What happens if ebay sends you a dud? Is ebay going to send you another one, and pay to have it replaced?

    Lay off the edibles.

    Yes, I gave them their names....... they are not licensed to install ac. Business license for one yes BUT NOT TO INSTALL AC he said he would do the install and I do not need a permit........ ( he lied to me) I need a new ac for my 2016 manufactured home because When I bought this house in July it had a running well 2003 Trane air conditioner with a heat pump it works great but it's it's way too big for this house I think that the people did it to save money I negotiated buying this house based on that problem but I still don't want to spend several thousand dollars that I don't need to on a newer system

    >>> What happens if ebay sends you a dud? Is ebay going to send you another one, and pay to have it replaced?<<< YES... 2 of them said 100% and they have over 1100 A+++ FEEDBACK

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    22,944
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    OP
    Let me explain what happens with the warranty
    A part breaks.
    You pay my labor to find said part and remove it. I hand said part to you, you deal with whoever dot com for the emplacement 2- 6 weeks.
    I come back and install said part.
    And charge labor again.

  14. Likes HVAC_Marc, lions_lair liked this post
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