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Thread: Migration

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Then, "Boiled down", ....... Whenever there is a large difference in the height of an Evaporator, & Condenser, be it Refrigeration, Air Conditioning, or Heat Pump,... to protect the System, the Common Sense Installation would include a Solenoid valve, to prevent "Migration".
    Would include a Crankcase Heater!

    Frosty liquid line is secondary and will disappear as the temp warms. Keeping the oil in the sump in my book is a higher priority!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Would include a Crankcase Heater!

    Frosty liquid line is secondary and will disappear as the temp warms. Keeping the oil in the sump in my book is a higher priority!
    So,... A Crankcase heater & solenoid valve Pec?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Then, "Boiled down", ....... Whenever there is a large difference in the height of an Evaporator, & Condenser, be it Refrigeration, Air Conditioning, or Heat Pump,... to protect the System, the Common Sense Installation would include a Solenoid valve, to prevent "Migration".
    The height difference I referred to is just a heat pipe thing, required to set up the heat pipe action. For refrigerant to migrate, all that is needed is the temperature difference.

    An example of refrigerant migration that is not include heat pipe action would be an evaporator in an attic and an outdoor condensing unit at ground level. If the attic is at 90 Deg F and the OD temp is 70 Deg F there will be migration. If the temperature of the oil in compressor drops below 90 Deg F there will be refrigerant dilution of the oil. So it doesn't have to be cold outside to need crankcase heat or pumpdown control.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    The height difference I referred to is just a heat pipe thing, required to set up the heat pipe action. For refrigerant to migrate, all that is needed is the temperature difference.

    An example of refrigerant migration that is not include heat pipe action would be an evaporator in an attic and an outdoor condensing unit at ground level. If the attic is at 90 Deg F and the OD temp is 70 Deg F there will be migration. If the temperature of the oil in compressor drops below 90 Deg F there will be refrigerant dilution of the oil. So it doesn't have to be cold outside to need crankcase heat or pumpdown control.


    This be the case, .... then any System, be it Refrigeration, Heat Pump, A.C., that falls within this scenario, ... For One to Truly State, "I did the best Installation possible.", would have to include a CCH & Solenoid in the Installation.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    So,... A Crankcase heater & solenoid valve Pec?
    How many times are the conditions right for that to happen determines if a solenoid valve is needed. Again the ice is a inconvenience, lifting the oil out of the sump is a different story. The heater may also help the situation!

    I had a chiller here that wasn't a pump down outside compressor so the scroll got a CCH!

  6. #66
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    Thread Starter
    Dectron does or used to use a heat recovery coil with refrigerant no compressor. Can't remember the exact layout. All I can find in my records is the DX pipe layout. It was a 1999 DS Model. Would it have been on the exhaust and fresh air intake?

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  7. #67
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    Looks like they use a glyco loop for heat recovery now

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  8. #68
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    A couple of things. Ice's explanation makes sense,with the waterfall effect. Thanks,ice.

    Then, is this LLSV being used w/ a LPC for a true pumpdown?

    Then, I believe that a regular CCH is totally useless at that low ambient temp. What is the typical "balance point" of a CCH vs the ambient temp?

    Then, I also believe that migration also take place when the evap,lineset,CU are all at the same temp,as in a power outage situation.
    Last edited by TechmanTerry; 02-05-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  9. #69
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    Is this it icemeister ?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #70
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    As for the CCH I'm one of its biggest fans.
    That said, if were pumping all the refrigerant out of the systems high ( after the LLSV ) & low sides where would any possible migration come from ?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    As for the CCH I'm one of its biggest fans.
    That said, if were pumping all the refrigerant out of the systems high ( after the LLSV ) & low sides where would any possible migration come from ?
    Hence the reason why pumpdown control is considered the better protection against oil dilution due to refrigerant migration.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    Hence the reason why pumpdown control is considered the better protection against oil dilution due to refrigerant migration.
    X-2

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    How many times are the conditions right for that to happen determines if a solenoid valve is needed. Again the ice is a inconvenience, lifting the oil out of the sump is a different story. The heater may also help the situation!

    I had a chiller here that wasn't a pump down outside compressor so the scroll got a CCH!
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechmanTerry View Post
    A couple of things. Ice's explanation makes sense,with the waterfall effect. Thanks,ice.

    Then, is this LLSV being used w/ a LPC for a true pumpdown?

    Then, I believe that a regular CCH is totally useless at that low ambient temp. What is the typical "balance point" of a CCH vs the ambient temp?

    Then, I also believe that migration also take place when the evap,lineset,CU are all at the same temp,as in a power outage situation.
    Why would "a regular CCH" be useless Techman?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  15. #75
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    Hi David. A typical CCH if sized properly has just enough heat to heat the comp oil down to around 0*F. So, Flapping Jaws here, if the ambient is -1*F the OAT is colder than the heat produced by the CCH so the crankcase heat get colder and the oil gets colder which then allows migration to take place.

    Out of 4 Mfrg's of receivers ,none of them have a recommendation for having a Reciever heater/insulation installed. Heatcraft has a "add-on receiver heating/insulating kit" which keeps the receiver between 40*F-75*F. Heatcraft also recommends insulating any exposed LL

  16. #76
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    Greetings Techman,

    Then, .... this is beginning to sound like, Manufacturer's have the capability to "Build & Sell" Outstanding & Efficient Equipment, that would be long lasting, .... Yet they don't due to "spending a little more $$$$".

    MeThinks that a CCH could/ should be, installed, that modulated it's output dependent upon the OAT, as well as a "add-on receiver heating/insulating kit", & a LLSV.

    Ya'll remember the old "Maytag Commercials" where the Service guy just sat around reading the paper & doing crossword commercials? Maytag equipment is now made in such a fashion now, that the Service Guy, no longer reads the paper, due to all of the equipment failures SMH, .... That also goes for many of our products.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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