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  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    correct, I do not get to dictate who and what other people say, however .... I am sure the moderators reading this thread are not too happy right about now, they expect us members to conduct themselves in a respectful professional manner towards each other and anything less makes the website look bad, embarrassing for them and for all of the other members ... I asked you several times to leave the thread alone yet you refused to do so, you continued on with tubing, condensate pumps and how long the job took, whatever you could gin up to try and start an argument .... any productive conversation ended dozens of posts ago if one was even started at all, probably not considering you opened up the dialog with previous posts from ARP, you have hurled insults and made false accusations for the sake of having an argument, I would never go on another members thread and try to continue an argument once they respectfully asked me not to do so ... if you insist on having the last word have at it

    Is that all? Have you achieved what you set out to achieve?
    Signature removed Violated rule #15

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    correct, I do not get to dictate who and what other people say, however .... I am sure the moderators reading this thread are not too happy right about now, they expect us members to conduct themselves in a respectful professional manner towards each other and anything less makes the website look bad, embarrassing for them and for all of the other members ... I asked you several times to leave the thread alone yet you refused to do so, you continued on with tubing, condensate pumps and how long the job took, whatever you could gin up to try and start an argument .... any productive conversation ended dozens of posts ago if one was even started at all, probably not considering you opened up the dialog with previous posts from ARP, you have hurled insults and made false accusations for the sake of having an argument, I would never go on another members thread and try to continue an argument once they respectfully asked me not to do so ... if you insist on having the last word have at it
    Like it or not people could have learned not to leave unused outlets on a furnace circuit and why not to. They may have learned other ways to wire in condensate pumps. They can make their own decision whether or not is worth the time and effort to clean and oil a condensate pump or simply change it. They can decide if it looks sloppy to leave old condensate pump tubing in place. Especially since it looked like it would have been an easy changeout of it.

    People should also know the value to getting jobs inspected.
    Last edited by pageyjim; 03-22-2019 at 12:46 PM.
    Signature removed Violated rule #15

  3. #81
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    Skills, it is a tidy install, as I have already mentioned. You went above and beyond 95% of installs that I see... sadly. Clean well supported venting. Solid furnace base. The pvc pipe sleeve that the lineset exits out to the CU is a nice touch. etc.

    Is there items that we do different, sure. But that doesn't make it bad.

    You took pride in the install. Consider leaving this thread at that.

    Cheers.

  4. #82
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    Skills, it is a tidy install, as I have already mentioned. You went above and beyond 95% of installs that I see... sadly. Clean well supported venting. Solid furnace base. The pvc pipe sleeve that the lineset exits out to the CU is a nice touch. etc.

    Is there items that we do different, sure. But that doesn't make it bad.

    You took pride in the install. Consider leaving this thread at that.

    Cheers.
    thanks for the heads up about venting after the trap and keeping the condensate drains seperate my fellow North American Patriot and HVACR brother I will definitely pay closer attention



    I normally would not tee them together like that, but if i recall correctly on that side of the pump there was only one opening, never occurred to me I could have drilled another hole in the top of the pump, I think it will be fine
    Last edited by hvacskills; 03-23-2019 at 07:26 AM.

  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    Concord 95 % furnace and 13 seer AC replacement over this last summer ..... I like Concord equipment ...

    job was like 40 miles away so it took me a few weeks to get it done in between other work ..... customer was giving me hard time because it was taking so long, but I wheel barrowed dirt from across the back of the yard to elevate and level the condensing unit, even mixed coloring to the mason mix to try and blend in with the bricks where the flu pipes are .... and stuff just takes time ..... but when I was done she was really happy

    customer insisted on having the faucet where it is, so I installed a new one for her, no harm I suppose, the old faucet did not work but there was no room to replace it because of where the AC unit was .... when I was done she then decides to plant a bunch of plants and flowers around the back of her house and around the AC unit now that she had an outdoor faucet at the back of her house ....

    there is actually enough room to get in there and service the AC unit if need be, opposed to as before, plus there is now an outdoor disconnect .....

    somehow I got into the habit of using 4 inch bricks, leveled with mason mix, to set the furnace on, it adds a day to the project because it has to set overnight, but it is a nice, solid, level, foundation to build upon .....

    rarely use 90 s for my copper connections inside or out, I prefer to gradually bend the pipe

    seldom do installs anymore, just can't afford to be tied up that long and just can't blast them in, so maybe one or two a year ..... not perfect, but for what it's worth it turned out OK .... seen worse
    Are those the leads for the low voltage saftie on the Condensate Pump hanging out from the Pump Hvac?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    that is a ' P ' trap, not an ' S ' trap, the condensate drain pipe is running and terminating vertically 24 " below, so venting that pipe will not be a concern, it would be a concern if the condensate piping was running horizontally, which it is not .... IE, a vacuum will not be created in the piping



    the condensate drain pipe is running and terminating vertically 12 " below, so this will not be a concern, it would be a concern if the condensate piping was running horizontally, which it is not .... IE, extra pressure will not be needed on the condensate drain piping as might be needed if the drain pipe was running horizontally



    the drain pipe is venting and terminating vertically 12 " below, so this will not be a concern, it would be a concern if the condensate piping was running horizontally, which it is not .... IE, unless the vertical piping becomes blocked, which it will not, condensate will not back up into the furnace, which is the reason for them to be separated



    all is OK ... guess us Americans are able to figure out why things are supposed to be the way that they are .....



    personally I think it would be stupid to tie in the safety switch on a furnace and AC installation in a basement with a concrete floor leaving the customer with no heat or AC .... customer was advised what will happen if pump fails



    no need to apologize, you obviously spent a bit of time doing the research to find reasons to be critical of the work




    as is the duct work, as is the electrical, as is everything else ... normally, when I find myself wanting to give constructive criticism, I start out with the compliment .. but then that was not intended to be constructive criticism was it ?

    "personally I think it would be stupid to tie in the safety switch on a furnace and AC installation in a basement with a concrete floor leaving the customer with no heat or AC .... customer was advised what will happen if pump fails"


    Understood, ... But, ...Since it is a "Saftie" & a component of that Pump, ... Isn't it Required to be hooked up per State of Ohio Mechanical Code?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    Thank you for a way forward...

    Your welcome. I am truly sorry, and perplexed, that this thread took the turn it did.

    I singled out the combustion air and exhaust venting as a positive due to not seeing primer and glue running down the pipe, plus you used proper hangers not all round strapping. Which is sadly more typical. It was a good example of you doing a thoughtful install. Overall it is of quality.

    Peace.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    --- Does it work and is it right aren't the same thing. Let me foreword this by saying, I'm no stranger to deviating from best practice. If I need to make something work, I'll make it work. See my recent post in Wall of Shame for example. But should I is a different conversation. ---

    My approach to venting stems from spending considerable time working with my plumber brother. 3/4", 2", 6"... I treat drainage all the same. I do think venting is best practice.

    Also, unless there is a site specific physical restraint requiring me to, I just follow the manufacturer instructions. I'd rather not give a competitor reason to ridicule my install to a customer. Eg. Say there is furnace pressure switch issue and the manual says do it this way to prevent a pressure switch issue... what's the tech going to say to customer? CYA.

    From a manufacturer point of view, I'd imagine every scenario needs to be covered. Maybe a majority of time not having a vent is not a problem. But it only takes one time for it to come back on them. So, venting it is.

    In the unlikely event drain pipe outlet becomes blocked, the furnace will spill water out of the black factory trap vent outlet. If the vent had been extended up beyond the furnace outlet, you may get a blocked flue pressure switch fault (I think that's right??), indicating there is a problem that needs rectifying. Since tied together, water is coming out of the furnace vent pipe during AC use if outlet blocked.

    I hope that makes sense

    As for the condensate pump overflow switch, once again I cover my a$$. I'd rather a lack of warmth/cooling to indicate furnace needs service rather than relying on customer to notice water on the floor. Concrete basement floors seem to be a magnet of people's belongings Bit of a worst case, do I want people to be uncomfortable for a day or risk water damage to family photo albums? I choose my liability over their comfort.

    Again, really neat install!! IMO, a tee, couple feet of pipe and control cable would make it better.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    that was just a question in general, not specific towards the install

    ' what is the reason for having the pipe vented after the trap ? '


    as mentioned, I do not believe it is to prevent siphoning of the trap as may be the case in a house drain, not enough condensate for that to happen

    I do know that if a condensate pipe is inserted too far into a condensate pump that it can cause the condensate pipe to fill with condensate, thinking maybe a vent might prevent that from happening

    thinking maybe having the pipe vented after the trap probably allows for overall better drainage by relieving any tendency to develop negative pressure, especially on longer runs
    The "Vent", per the thinking of the "pencil pushers", is to prevent siphoning, per my recollection, & also to assist in cleaning out a plugged drain.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauptmann6 View Post
    I hope you have better luck with the aluminum coils than we have. I would kill to go back to the old(pre 2008 or so) copper coils. We find lots of leakers.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacskills View Post
    gave this some thought .... I see nothing wrong with having an outlet along with the outlet for the pump on the side of the furnace, actually it is a convenient place to plug in a ShopVac to vacuum out the furnace or a charger to charge a battery ... it is no different than the home owner plugging a power tool into an outlet anywhere else in the house that may be on the same circuit as another appliance or something else, common sense applies here ... also, it is obvious the outlet is most likely on the same circuit as the furnace, so again, common sense applies

    if you think the home owner is not expected to use common sense then it would be code for every outlet in the entire house to be on its own circuit
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  12. #90
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Understood, ... But, ...Since it is a "Saftie" & a component of that Pump, ... Isn't it Required to be hooked up per State of Ohio Mechanical Code?
    probalby should be referring to it as an ' overflow switch ' rather than a ' safety switch ' .. pretty sure any relevant code would only come into play if the pump could fail and cause water damage, but then at that point having just the switch wired in ( or an alarm / sensor ) would be pretty much pointless with a condensing furnace and an AC unit, because either the furnace trap or the AC trap could become blocked so the condensate would never reach the pump anyhow ( although as mentioned by previous poster the furnace should shut down on pressure switch ), or there could be a leak elsewhere, so a drain pan under the furnace would be required

  13. #91
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    About 10, maybe 12 years ago, I had an Install in Clermont County, & the Inspector was well pleased with what We had done, then he notices, that the leads of the pump were not connected so as to turn the H20 producing equipment off. I Totally forgot to tie it in!

    This Inspector was Cool & told me "Dave, that's gotta be hooked up before I leave, otherwise I gotta give you a Red Tag."

    XXXX even helped me thread the 2-wire from the leads, up to the board, where I hooked it up to "Break" R & C, which he questioned at first, till I told him that H20 was produced during Heat & Cooling, so therefore it made sense that if the pump quit, in either Operation, the H.O. would quickly be Alerted.

    I got My coveted "Blue Tag".
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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