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Thread: Lineset Leaks

  1. #27
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    Agreed , I found pdm linesets at one of our local distributors and told boss man that I would only install them from then on because of the durability and ease to work with. We’ve installed thousands of ft and never had any issue other than a drywall screw hahaha damn drywallers

  2. #28
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    That's funny - because to me a "lineset" always has two copper tubes in it and the larger of the two Has to be insulated.

    If it's just a pair of copper tubes without any insulation it's not a "lineset" - it's just some tubing. <g>

    PHM
    ------------



    ed
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The insulation, isn't the line set. The copper is.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  3. #29
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    So I talked to PDMUS last week and the acknowledged they had problems with there line sets from the years 14-16 some chemical reaction with water getting into the insulation and causing it to eat away at the copper. They said it's only been in certain area's of the country, not sure why that is. We just found our 2nd. one this week. As for the line set comment. All ductless units require both the suction line and liquid line to be insulated unlike a conventional A/C system or refrigeration system where only the suction line needs to be insulated, it is because where the metering device is located. Thanks Very Much

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrewster View Post
    So I talked to PDMUS last week and the acknowledged they had problems with there line sets from the years 14-16 some chemical reaction with water getting into the insulation and causing it to eat away at the copper. They said it's only been in certain area's of the country, not sure why that is. We just found our 2nd. one this week. As for the line set comment. All ductless units require both the suction line and liquid line to be insulated unlike a conventional A/C system or refrigeration system where only the suction line needs to be insulated, it is because where the metering device is located. Thanks Very Much
    Is it Freon or Refrigerant?

  5. #31
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    May 2014
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    Yes. Yes it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Is it Freon or Refrigerant?
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    That's funny - because to me a "lineset" always has two copper tubes in it and the larger of the two Has to be insulated.

    If it's just a pair of copper tubes without any insulation it's not a "lineset" - it's just some tubing. <g>

    PHM
    ------------



    ed
    If he is doing mini-spits then both lines are insulated.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


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  7. #33
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    Jun 2013
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    You guys are getting weird with this ‘definition of the word lineset’ stuff. The lineset is EVERYTHING going from indoor to outdoor, hence: a line set is a set of lines (cooper tube, wire, stat wire). All of these can be generally referred to individually as a ‘line.’ Your lineset is the set of lines between units. Insulation is insulation, copper tube is copper tube etc, and together it all makes up the lineset. There.

  8. #34
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    Dec 2002
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    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
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    I just found two systems at one house w pdm us gelcopper lines leaking. picked up refer at end insulation, started stripping off insulation and found oily in one, pinholes leaks.

    spot checked a few other places and found more leaks. tubing isn't all that black, but some of the lines had green on the insulation externally. cut one open and customer could smell it 10' away, oily stink from poe and water inside insulation.

    doing a quote now to replace for 8 heads off two systems, over 200' worth. Not sure if the maunf will do anything for custome of not, hardly 2 yo system, central va.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  9. #35
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    Where is the party so I can get some?

  10. #36
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    Jan 2019
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    Thread Starter
    My leaking tubing has all been date stamped within that time frame. I haven't found any water between the insulation and tubing. It is possible it was there at some point, but the insulation is undisturbed and most often inside the house and out of the weather. It is hard to be sure when it is all oily but a foot away it is dry. I have one more confirmed leaker with pin holes in the tubing plus one to be checked. I agree it is some kind of chemical reaction between insulation and copper. They must have made a change after 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by bbrewster View Post
    So I talked to PDMUS last week and the acknowledged they had problems with there line sets from the years 14-16 some chemical reaction with water getting into the insulation and causing it to eat away at the copper. They said it's only been in certain area's of the country, not sure why that is. We just found our 2nd. one this week. As for the line set comment. All ductless units require both the suction line and liquid line to be insulated unlike a conventional A/C system or refrigeration system where only the suction line needs to be insulated, it is because where the metering device is located. Thanks Very Much

  11. #37
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    Jan 2019
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    Thread Starter
    Good luck with getting reimbursement from the manufacturer. At first they were very good about it, but as it became more widespread the reimbursement stopped for me. My distributor could not produce a warranty but later that day one was emailed from a manufacturer's rep - 2 yrs on product and 3 years against leaks. Yes I have it in an email. I would never have sold it had I known it had such a short warranty - shame on me. The bright side on replacing the linesets is that the holes are drilled. The downside is when they are behind drywall!

    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    I just found two systems at one house w pdm us gelcopper lines leaking. picked up refer at end insulation, started stripping off insulation and found oily in one, pinholes leaks.

    spot checked a few other places and found more leaks. tubing isn't all that black, but some of the lines had green on the insulation externally. cut one open and customer could smell it 10' away, oily stink from poe and water inside insulation.

    doing a quote now to replace for 8 heads off two systems, over 200' worth. Not sure if the maunf will do anything for custome of not, hardly 2 yo system, central va.

  12. #38
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    Dec 2002
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    none of this is buried in a wall, but there's 8 runs of it.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  13. #39
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    Jan 2015
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    Iowa
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    shrub

    Just a recomendation: Cut out a piece of the leaking tube (maybe two or three pieces) keep you hands, fingers, whatever off the leaking area. Find a local testing lab and have them do a chemical and scaning microscope inspection. They will definitely tell you what the failure cause is. You need this if you are going to get reimbursement from the wholesaler or manufacturer. It really does not cost very much in the scheme of things. Otherwise you/your company is eating the warranty cost for replacing the linesets, correct?

    Most likely what happened is something didn't get cleaned off the tubing as it was being made, got on the tubing in storage before insulation was applied or was introduced as part of the insulation process. Look up "formic acid", "cupric" and "cuprous" corrosion on Google you'll get the idea. There have been cases of bad copper, bad steel (raw materials) from within the US but mainly from China and many years ago from Japan. From what I have read it appears Trane has just worked out of bad copper problems that went into chiller heat exchanger tubes

    Good Luck

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