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  1. #14
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    Wonder what the cost of getting legit commercial Java licenses are for a handful of users?

    Would be comical if it was a fraction the cost of N4 SMA fees.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  2. #15
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    Looks like $2.50/month per desktop though I only skimmed thru this.

    https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/j...et-4891969.pdf

    peanuts unless you need to cover loads of desktops. Even then they have volume discounts apparently.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    Were you getting this from? Seems muddy at best.
    There was email that came out from Tridium about a month ago that mentioned they intended to have some kind of solution in the future.

    As far as the alternatives you mentioned in regards to managing java installs, that may work well for some larger, more structured organizations, but most of my customers expect to be able to access their systems from any device at any time. If they get a new computer, they expect hvac access to be at their fingertips immediately. It may be unreasonable, but people see it as just another app.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    There was email that came out from Tridium about a month ago that mentioned they intended to have some kind of solution in the future.
    Saw the same. Wasn’t all that clear to me. So customer has current 3.8 using java / webstart. They do nothing, is it going to stop working come Feb? Only way that happens if Java pushes an update and somehow sorts out who is a consumer vs commercial customer or you upgrade AX to a newer version where Tridium can no longer ship webstart….but I’m guessing the java UI still works? Aka standard WB profile, no webstart.

    Oracle seems clear they are supporting it for consumers till 2025. So, unless they figure out how to sort out consumers from commercial users, unlikely, its going to continue to work. My guess this is just a EULA change and almost nobody cares. Install…next…next…next

    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    As far as the alternatives you mentioned in regards to managing java installs, that may work well for some larger, more structured organizations, but most of my customers expect to be able to access their systems from any device at any time. If they get a new computer, they expect hvac access to be at their fingertips immediately. It may be unreasonable, but people see it as just another app.
    Was thinking just the opposite. Mid to small sites that only use a single desktop or maybe a desktop and a few laptops. To get them commercial licenses to be in line with Oracle’s wishes is a fraction of the SMA fees. There is still HX views, which frankly I have had far less pain swapping to than just about anything N4 & HTML5.

    If it’s a customer that wants to jump on any PC, its AX/HX or N4/HTML5. Still see little need to push anyone to N4 until Tridium stops supporting 3.8.


    None of this was explained worth a crap in Tridium's email.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  5. #18
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    I just got this from Distech

    "EC-Net’s Java Web Applet and Java Web Start application depend on Java SE 8 to operate. Oracle, the developer of Java, has announced the End-of-Life of Java SE 8 and furthermore announced that it will no longer issue free public updates after January 2019.
    Although, you will still be able to view your EC-Net system if you have the Java SE 8 JRE installed on the client PC, it is very important that it is kept up to date with all Java security updates."

  6. #19
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    Well thank you Distech for pointing out the biggest issue.

    Java SE8 is required and its done unless you pay for a license. No license, no security updates so good luck. Reading between the lines, AX is not compatible with J9, J10 or J11 SE which is available now.

    Java in the browser has to go. This still makes it a choice between paid support or upgrade. Personally, I wouldn't be rolling without java updates. AX/HX still an option for those not ready for SMA offerings for a product with less than the prior.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  7. #20
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    We have received both the Distech bulletin and one from Honeywell. I'm amazed how far Tridium has kicked the can down the road with this issue. I have been fixing browser and Java problems for years, and when webstart was introduced as the last band-aid the customers were sold on this is being the fix. Now we have this garbage to deal with! JCI and their metasys line fixed this problem years ago, products like Distech's Ecyplse with envysion full HTML5 fixes this. Tridium deciding haystack tags, and a few adds to N4 was a better idea than any real HTML5 development was a terrible approach. Contractors are once again falling on the grenade of this poor execution. I have lots of AX sites that will probably need to be changed to HX making their nice interface turn into crap as the only option. A upgrade to N4 as a solution and moving to HTML5 would be another approach, but N4's HTML5 UI is also garbage compared to older AX/PX and third party offerings on the market like DGlux, and Finn Stack. We have sold a metric ton of Tridium product over the last 10 years with HW, JCI, Distech, Siemens Jaces all being used. That being said systems like Ecyplse from Distech are more appealing everyday.

  8. #21
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    The worst thing is, I have about a dozen sites that want to update to N4 but can’t due to no Lon cards.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSLLC4Life View Post
    The worst thing is, I have about a dozen sites that want to update to N4 but can’t due to no Lon cards.
    Yes were in the same boat. Lon cards must be hard to make? I’ve wonder many times is N4 an upgrade? I guess? Still a AX fan here, but have to move on I get it! It could be worse we’re dealing with a site with 32 R2 jaces still!

  10. #23
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    HW's factory swap is still hosing the lon card production?

    Seems like other things effected are just getting back to normal.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    HW's factory swap is still hosing the lon card production?

    Seems like other things effected are just getting back to normal.
    I have purchase orders from November that still haven’t been filled. It’ll probably be March before things get back to normal.

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