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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    Ultimate Man Cave

    I have a very large pole barn going up. I am getting conflicting information from local contractors and was hoping to clarify the sizing of the A/C needed for 3 separate areas within the same building. I prefer the prepackaged units as I would like to keep the duct work to a minimum. I do have unconditioned attic space but prefer the units to be installed at ground level on the exterior. I am trying to keep the cooling tonnage to a minimum as I don't want to have to upgrade beyond the planned 400 amp service to the building. I'm being told I will need a CT cabinet if I go above the 400 amps.

    Are 5 ton units the max tonnage for single phase?

    The basics

    location zip 46350, La Porte, IN
    radiant heat in R10 insulated floor slab plus R10 vertical at edges.
    R25 Walls
    R40 Ceilings
    2 x 8 Wood frame pole barn construction w/exterior house wrap and interior poly vapor barrier
    Single phase power only
    Building is T shaped. 2 rectangles with interior dividers to make the segregated areas.

    Area 1 - Gym
    ~4200 sq ft
    L52 x W80 x H25.5.
    216 sq ft of double pane windows
    a few seldom used man doors
    1 exterior wall 80'
    2 insulated interior walls against A/C space 1-80' 1-52'
    1 insulated interior wall against non A/C space 52'

    Area 2 - Shop
    ~8000 sq ft
    a few seldom used man doors
    3 overhead doors seldom used
    225 sq ft double pane windows/doors
    3 exterior walls
    1 insulated interior wall against A/C space, gym wall

    Area 3 - Game/Exercise 2 level
    ~2200 sq ft 1st level-game room
    ~2200 sq ft 2nd level-exercise/weight room
    L52 x W40 x H10 level 1
    L52 x w40 x H13.5 level 2
    3 exterior walls. 1 52' wall is interior up against gym wall both levels
    567 sq ft of double pane windows/doors
    leaning towards traditional residential split system for this space 5 ton

    I am hoping there is a way to calculate my cooling loads to the minimum required and still be able to achieve 72 degrees inside on most days. We have very few days in the 90's so if we get a little warmer inside on those days so be it. Its not relentless here like Texas!

    Thanks in advance for any help that might be out there. I'll be happy to provide me email or cell phone number if anyone needs additional info.

    Greg

  2. #2
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    Jan 2004
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    PA
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    How many people? Is the fresh air going to be just brought in by a duct, or by an HRV or ERV?

    What kind of lights, and how many?

    Building orientation?
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    That gym will need outside air brought in during use.

  4. #4
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    Dec 2018
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    Thread Starter
    All the lighting will be LED. I wasn't planning to install any kind of ERV or HRV system. I could be convinced otherwise. I really just wanted to have them install prepackaged units on the ground outside and draw a single air return from the bottom of the wall and then the output would travel up the exterior of the wall through an insulated duct inside and insulated chase and then though a spiral round duct that would then run the 80' length of the conditioned space along the 25.5' tall ceiling with diffusers installed along that duct like you would see in an exposed industrial/loft type setting.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northern NV
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    5T package unit is a big as they get on single phase.

    Package units can also be had with economizers!

    3 5T units puts you over the limit on a 200A service. If you are not using all of the areas simultaneously, you could put one of the systems on a zone controller...

  6. #6
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    Dec 2018
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    Thread Starter
    I'm starting to realize that I'm going to be stuck installing the CRT cabinet for inbound power regardless, if I end up conditioning all this space. Being as these are just large open spaces. Do you think I could get by with the following?

    Game room /exercise, 4400 sq ft total both floors. 5 ton split system, residential style
    Gym 4,200 sq ft. 25.5' ceiling 2-5 ton prepackaged, total 10 ton
    Shop 8,000 sq ft 20' ceiling 3-5 ton prepackaged, total 15 ton

    Would this be total overkill or possible under kill or just right?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    With 16,000 sq ft you need a mechanical contractor and deep pockets.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Dover, DE
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    Your well into needing an engineer. That’s a big space, and much of it should have air exchanges.
    Is a permit being pulled for all this? Depending on local code you may be required to have outside air.
    Your going to be hard pressed to condition this space with the limited power you have.
    I would absolutely NOT just guess and start throwing 5 ton units in.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

  9. #9
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    And how many people again.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  10. #10
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    Dec 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Its a hobby shop, so the use will be intermittent for sure. I could imagine during a good gym use event there could be 20 people in the gym. the game room, same thing. An occasional graduation or wedding reception i'm sure. I'm guessing less than 10 people in the entire space on an average day.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregake View Post
    Its a hobby shop, so the use will be intermittent for sure. I could imagine during a good gym use event there could be 20 people in the gym. the game room, same thing. An occasional graduation or wedding reception i'm sure. I'm guessing less than 10 people in the entire space on an average day.
    Then by code, you will have to meet fresh air requirements. Adds to the loads. You should see about getting a 3 phase service, so you can get proper package units that will have fresh air ability. And have capacity reduction for the times when its unoccupied. So you don't end up with high humidity, and mold problems.

    You need an engineer. Guessing could get you in more trouble then you can imagine.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Dover, DE
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregake View Post
    Its a hobby shop, so the use will be intermittent for sure. I could imagine during a good gym use event there could be 20 people in the gym. the game room, same thing. An occasional graduation or wedding reception i'm sure. I'm guessing less than 10 people in the entire space on an average day.
    Check with your local code office. This may be considered a commercial space due to the occupancy you plan to have.
    This affects the code requirements of conditioning the space.
    Could also affect the fire code too. You may be required to have sprinklers and a fire alarm system.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

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