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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    1,799
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    Quote Originally Posted by lzenglish View Post
    Yes i have seen, and worked on them. When i realized what the OP had, i tried to delete my advice, but it would not let me. I was thinking old school before microprocessors, my bad.
    Honeywell you can buy better but you cant pay more

    I told my wife when i die to sell my fishing stuff for what its worth not what i told her i paid for it

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Richmond, CA, USA
    Posts
    4
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    Thread Starter
    Dear All:

    Thanks for the responses. I was able to figure it out.

    The unit is a Trane Precedent unit (manufactured in 3/1998). It is a 20-year old rooftop gas/electric packaged unit, 10-tons, with electronic controls. It was controlled by a Trane thermostat which is specifically compatible with that unit. During a remodel, the stat was hit with a large dose of mud (joint compound). This must have shorted it out.

    Thanks to help from this forum, and also the Trane certified parts dealer, I had 2 options:

    1. Buy a new Trane DDC thermostat for this unit (over $430, not going to happen).
    2. Install a CTI (conventional thermostat interface card), and use any conventional thermostat.

    The CTI was just $133, so that was the best choice. Although it seems a bit daunting, it takes just a few minutes to install. They even include a 6-pin to 12-pin cable, with fairly good directions, and it was plug and play into the UTI (Trane's unit controller). Installed the CTI, and a new conventional thermostat, and the unit is up and running.

    The customer is super happy they didn't need to spend $45,000 on a unit replacement. I did recommend replacement, but they will probably get another 5-10 years out of this unit with a good maintenance program.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    32,175
    Post Likes
    I'm not certain they were using the "Precendent" moniker 20 years ago. In recent times, they put it on the label, at the bottom.

    Glad you were able to get it working. Seek out a copy of the Trane Microcontrols "Black Book."
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Bay Area California
    Posts
    26,553
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    For what it is worth, unless there are some sort of serious problems, I never recommend a unit replacement until a unit is around 30 years old. There's just no reason.

    I routinely see units over 30 yrs old and just make a simple repair. Never recommending a new unit.

    As an interesting talking point, got a Trane Intellipak on this roof. It is one of four. The other three have already been changed out. There are a whole bunch of 'minor' problems. But I make no recommendations for repairs. The idea is that if I make one repair, then it will lead to a cascade of other repairs.

    Talked with the building owner and told him pretty much the same thing I posted here. Told him that 60-80 ton (?) unit is creeping up on 40 years old. And there are tons of things wrong with it. But I don't want to touch it for fear of a catastrophic failure after a minor repair.

    Told him to budget for a unit replacement instead. Whenever that may be required.

    Bottom line is that other techs could have easily soaked him for up to 20 or 30 grand over the past several years. As it is, that unit has cost less in repairs than the other new units that keep having leaks, VFD, and motor problems.

    I love seeing a butchered ~40 year old Trane boxcar unit keep chugging along!!
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Richmond, CA, USA
    Posts
    4
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    For what it is worth, unless there are some sort of serious problems, I never recommend a unit replacement until a unit is around 30 years old. There's just no reason.

    I routinely see units over 30 yrs old and just make a simple repair. Never recommending a new unit.

    As an interesting talking point, got a Trane Intellipak on this roof. It is one of four. The other three have already been changed out. There are a whole bunch of 'minor' problems. But I make no recommendations for repairs. The idea is that if I make one repair, then it will lead to a cascade of other repairs.

    Talked with the building owner and told him pretty much the same thing I posted here. Told him that 60-80 ton (?) unit is creeping up on 40 years old. And there are tons of things wrong with it. But I don't want to touch it for fear of a catastrophic failure after a minor repair.

    Told him to budget for a unit replacement instead. Whenever that may be required.

    Bottom line is that other techs could have easily soaked him for up to 20 or 30 grand over the past several years. As it is, that unit has cost less in repairs than the other new units that keep having leaks, VFD, and motor problems.

    I love seeing a butchered ~40 year old Trane boxcar unit keep chugging along!!
    Yes, agreed. It completely depends on the condition of the unit. I have a service account with a 34 year old Trane 15-ton gas pack. It is run hard, 14 hours per day, 7 days a week for a retail operation. Still chugging along, and we keep it going. Some of the older units are built like tanks, they just keep on going like the Energizer Bunny!

    We like to consider all factors, especially age, outdoor coil condition, efficiency, reliability, etc. You can theoretically keep just about anything running forever, just replace anything that breaks. Even though the unit is located in San Francisco, the outdoor coil is in great condition. It is an R-22 unit, with a slow leak in one circuit, so that is also a problem.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    3,036
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Baja Mechanical View Post
    Dear All:

    Thanks for the responses. I was able to figure it out.

    The unit is a Trane Precedent unit (manufactured in 3/1998). It is a 20-year old rooftop gas/electric packaged unit, 10-tons, with electronic controls. It was controlled by a Trane thermostat which is specifically compatible with that unit. During a remodel, the stat was hit with a large dose of mud (joint compound). This must have shorted it out.

    Thanks to help from this forum, and also the Trane certified parts dealer, I had 2 options:

    1. Buy a new Trane DDC thermostat for this unit (over $430, not going to happen).
    2. Install a CTI (conventional thermostat interface card), and use any conventional thermostat.

    The CTI was just $133, so that was the best choice. Although it seems a bit daunting, it takes just a few minutes to install. They even include a 6-pin to 12-pin cable, with fairly good directions, and it was plug and play into the UTI (Trane's unit controller). Installed the CTI, and a new conventional thermostat, and the unit is up and running.

    The customer is super happy they didn't need to spend $45,000 on a unit replacement. I did recommend replacement, but they will probably get another 5-10 years out of this unit with a good maintenance program.
    45k? Must be a Trane-Royce!
    Id say closer to 5k delivered to you. Pretty good markup!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    32,175
    Post Likes
    Baja-

    We avoid discussing pricing in the open forums. When you apply for and receive Pro status, we can have those discussion in the closed Pro areas. Just an FYI.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

    AOP Forum Rules:







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