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  1. #1
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    Post FYI - Rational Gas Units, updated blower speeds, new kits

    I see Rational has reissued it's older service bulletin from earlier this year, and updated part numbers for hot air burner assemblies and replacement instructions.

    If you have *any* gas fired units, they want the Max_Speed burner blower setting turned down to it's lowest setting, about 700 rpms below normal factory supplied Max, they are still having issues with burner tubes burning out I guess.

    They have also changed the replacement burner tube assemblies, to incluse *both* top and bottom as a kit if either has problems. Tube assembly kits now include new burner and electrode.

    Anyone wants the pdf, shoot me an email address... I imagine it's in their service tech portal, too.

  2. #2
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    Why do you care? After all, you're retar...uh - I mean, RETIRED!

    Thanks for the scoop. I looked at TI 1809. Looks like that's for version H and I ovens. Mine are version G, which aren't included. I couldn't find anything from earlier this year related to the blower RPM setting. Can you share the TI or MI number?

    I can't shoot you an email address. We're not allowed to post them HERE in the thread. Your profile doesn't include an email address...and, since you're just a lowly REGULAR member (shrugging my shoulders), I can't PM you.

    Maybe Dad will read this and grant you pro status by your post count and the quality info you've shared here. That's how I got it...and I didn't even ask.

    Anyway, my email is in my profile. If this website lets you see it, can you send me the PDF?
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  3. #3
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    Yep, 1809 it is. Just came to my email (again) today.

    >On your next visit or service call to ANY SelfCookingCenter® WE type 102G or 202G built since 9/2011
    >please adjust Hot air burner blower RPM settings "Max" power


    And, yep, I'm re-something. I still am signed up for Rational bulletins.

    It's funny, what I miss the most is driving all over the place.

  4. #4
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    > Mine are version G

    Just toss those old puppies out!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    Just toss those old puppies out!

    Heck, my SCC version Gs (and a few Es) are still NEW when compared to the REALLY old ones I'm still maintaining. For example (click for a bigger picture):


    That's a C-line 1995 model 480v CCC202.
    YUP. I still have ONE running...and several simpler CCD ovens.

    I made that diagram on the left (and more for our other ovens) to clarify what contactor does what. Nothing in Rational's literature offered that, so I made my own. Otherwise, it was just a bank of unlabelled contactors (thanks to my predecessors) with whole bunch of wires.
    TWELVE friggin' contactors.

    Thanks to newer technology in the newer ovens, everything pictured was all replaced by SSRs, a VFD, whatever's on a relay PCB and one...just ONE main contactor.
    YET, these old ovens keep me on my toes.
    When THEY fail, they go BOOM!

    The CPCs ('97-'04 ovens) I also maintain are only slightly better. Their many upgrades (four versions) are the main challenge.

    I still sleep okay...
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  6. #6
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    >That's a C-line 1995 model 480v CCC202.

    A couplethree years back, we had a downtown Savannah hotel call up and say their chef had gotten 2 used Rationals (for free!) from somewhere, TN maybe, I thought it might have been military, and could we put at least one of them in, asap. I think the other was a 62 or 102-class machine. I go have a looksee, and there is one of those units, sideways on a cart, in a parking garage across the street. Here, put this in for us, they said. There was no kitchen door big enough to fit it through, and, like, how the hell do I get it off the cart and rotated upright. And what parts are even available for it. Talked it over with the service manager, and we said you all get it inside, and in place, we'll see if it even runs.

    Couple of months later, yep, they called back and said ready. But it doesn't turn on for long before blowing a fuse, and our guys can't figure it out.

    We sent out a tech who couldn't figure it out, couldn't get a schematic for it. So, as usual, I get to figure it out. Took me 2 days and a dozen fuses to find the cooling fan was shorted. Fingered and isolated sooo many wires to figger it out.

    I'm getting a bad feeling it might have been one of yours?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    We sent out a tech who couldn't figure it out, couldn't get a schematic for it. So, as usual, I get to figure it out. Took me 2 days and a dozen fuses to find the cooling fan was shorted. Fingered and isolated sooo many wires to figger it out.
    I believe THAT. Aside from few exceptions, our schematics on those old ovens are 400v 50Hz and written in German. Their equivalent of today's training manuals can be gotten in English, but are poorly translated and highly deficient of MANY details.


    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    I'm getting a bad feeling it might have been one of yours?
    You THINK?

    No. We keep them until replacements arrive...then keep them.

    I got three right now that I've proposed to forklift into one of those construction debris dumpsters.

    We (our business) doesn't resell ANYTHING. It eventually just gets tossed.

    Do you remember those Groen combi-ovens from the late '90s to early 2000s? We still have several sets of the "upgrade" replacement control boards with their relay boards collecting dust on our warehouse parts shelf. Nobody knows how to sell them back into the parts supply stream, the ovens have been gone for a dozen years...so we'll probably toss those in the dumpster too.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  8. #8
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    > I got three right now that I've proposed to forklift into one of those construction debris dumpsters.

    So, you can be the worldwide supplier for used defunct Rational parts? For a while anyway.

    Yeah I couldn't help thinking whoever my Chef buddy got them from, was thanking his stars that day when those units just dissapeared.

    > Do you remember those Groen combi-ovens from the late '90s to early 2000s?

    Blessedly, no.

  9. #9
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    Holy cow ECtofix! That’s an old Rat! I’ve got a couple old combis that I service from time to time. Here’s a Cleveland (Lainox) from 93’ish. It’s in a high school where the ladies really take care of their equipment.



    Here’s an Alto-Shaam from 97’. This particular unit is an odd size, how many manufacturers make a 12.20? This is the only one I’ve ever seen. They literally remodeled the entire kitchen about 10 years ago, replacing everything but that unit. It still runs like a champ too. The serial number starts with “RD” for research and development. When I was at Alto-Shaam earlier this summer I showed them a pic of this and both instructors said they had never seen that model series or that size. Lol, rookies.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    I believe THAT. Aside from few exceptions, our schematics on those old ovens are 400v 50Hz and written in German. Their equivalent of today's training manuals can be gotten in English, but are poorly translated and highly deficient of MANY details.



    You THINK?

    No. We keep them until replacements arrive...then keep them.

    I got three right now that I've proposed to forklift into one of those construction debris dumpsters.

    We (our business) doesn't resell ANYTHING. It eventually just gets tossed.

    Do you remember those Groen combi-ovens from the late '90s to early 2000s? We still have several sets of the "upgrade" replacement control boards with their relay boards collecting dust on our warehouse parts shelf. Nobody knows how to sell them back into the parts supply stream, the ovens have been gone for a dozen years...so we'll probably toss those in the dumpster too.
    Are the Groen combis (combos in their world) your referring to the CCE series? That’s the oldest Groen combi I can think of. We have one customer that still has them. Somewhere around two years ago or so I replaced one of those control board/relay board piggy back thingamajiggers. It was over $1600 I believe.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    I see Rational has reissued it's older service bulletin from earlier this year, and updated part numbers for hot air burner assemblies and replacement instructions.

    If you have *any* gas fired units, they want the Max_Speed burner blower setting turned down to it's lowest setting, about 700 rpms below normal factory supplied Max, they are still having issues with burner tubes burning out I guess.

    They have also changed the replacement burner tube assemblies, to incluse *both* top and bottom as a kit if either has problems. Tube assembly kits now include new burner and electrode.

    Anyone wants the pdf, shoot me an email address... I imagine it's in their service tech portal, too.
    I don’t remember seeing the burner blower speed newsletter. Do you know which number TI or MI it was?


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  12. #12
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    TI 1809, and Service Bulletin 2-2018

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanMan812 View Post
    Are the Groen combis (combos in their world) your referring to the CCE series? That’s the oldest Groen combi I can think of. We have one customer that still has them. Somewhere around two years ago or so I replaced one of those control board/relay board piggy back thingamajiggers. It was over $1600 I believe.
    You're correct. THIS is the retrofit kit I'd mentioned that we have collecting dust on our shelf:
    https://www.partstown.com/groen/gr112980

    Note the PRICE! That's about DOUBLE what they cost ten years ago.

    What was really stupid was that this retrofit kit replaced the control & relay board pair original to the the earlier ovens. However, if there was an issue with the original control board, a newer control board wasn't compatible with an older relay board. So...you had to order this retrofit kit.
    What was even MORE stupid was that the primary source of failure was merely the control board's integral potentiometer - used to adjust cook time and temp. With IT not working, the control panel wasn't any good. Of course, the potentiometer wasn't replaceable in the field...and not offered as a part which could be ordered.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

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