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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    I
    A scoffing laugh was rude IMO and if you got a better and are in the area simply dont apply.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I find it offensive on this day and age employers to advertise things that are givens as perks, don't want to get a laugh at? then post with substance, pay range and real benefits, you sticking your nose where does not concern you is kind of rude IMO!
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

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  3. #28
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    The last place I was, if you were on call, just plan on working. Port to port was a very minor part of your pay.

    For example, figure on minimal sleep, and working all weekend.

    Looks good in the bank account, but your head gets real messed up with the sleep and meal schedule. Maybe okay if you are young and trying to save to buy a house, but the older you get, the greater the toll.


    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    The whole "perk" list is a joke, being on call does not bother me. local non-union contractors are offering paid medical and dental,2 weeks paid vacation to start, tool accounts, sign in bonuses.... and they are having a hard time finding and retaining employees.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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  5. #29
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    Last place i worked at being on call was not a someone might call kind of thing, you generally work more than scheduled including 2am. We can agree to disagree but ide call it a perk as so few hvac tech jobs are available without doing on call.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #30
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    Yup.

    Been where I am now for over three years, and have had I think three calls after hours or weekends. And one of those was the owner called me because the on call guy flaked out, I took the call, and the tech was fired a few days later.


    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    Last place i worked at being on call was not a someone might call kind of thing, you generally work more than scheduled including 2am. We can agree to disagree but ide call it a perk as so few hvac tech jobs are available without doing on call.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  7. #31
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    The reality in all of this....is that the pendulum has shifted. For those of us that started in the trade more than 25 years ago, the employers or the union used to have the upper hand. We used to stand in line for a chance at a good job. Now there are way more jobs available than quality techs to fill them.

    I work for one of the OEMs and we convened a corporate committee (I ended up on it) to come up with a strategy to deal with the shortage. Pay is one thing, benefits another. But we are also dealing with different generational expectations inside of the larger problem. Millennial techs have one set of expectations and the 55 year old crowd has another. Throw in 25 year old apprentices and it turns into a salad bowl of how to make them all happy.

    I've sat in on A LOT of interviews over the last year. Pay is a pressing issue, but there also has to be more to the package. Employers have to be upfront with their expectations and also with what they offer. The old adage of "pay commensurate with experience" is a thing of the past. As with "company van", "tool accounts", etc...

    The reality is staring the largest companies in the face and it is a difficult equation for even them to figure out. Techs want one thing, accountants want another. The stark reality is...we are the commodity that the company sells. With no commodity to sell, there are no profit margins at all.

    When a company tells me that they are having a "really hard time filling positions" it screams that they don't see the big picture. They are hesitant to bring their pay scale up and above local prevailing. They think that "perks" from 20 years ago are still considered perks. And they think that techs can still be treated as expendable or disposable.

    For those companies, it is time to wake up and get with the program or face the cliff that you are about to fall from.

    My $0.02 worth.

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  9. #32
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    Great post.

    The only thing I can add is that there will always be those who want to under bid the others.


    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    The reality in all of this....is that the pendulum has shifted. For those of us that started in the trade more than 25 years ago, the employers or the union used to have the upper hand. We used to stand in line for a chance at a good job. Now there are way more jobs available than quality techs to fill them.

    I work for one of the OEMs and we convened a corporate committee (I ended up on it) to come up with a strategy to deal with the shortage. Pay is one thing, benefits another. But we are also dealing with different generational expectations inside of the larger problem. Millennial techs have one set of expectations and the 55 year old crowd has another. Throw in 25 year old apprentices and it turns into a salad bowl of how to make them all happy.

    I've sat in on A LOT of interviews over the last year. Pay is a pressing issue, but there also has to be more to the package. Employers have to be upfront with their expectations and also with what they offer. The old adage of "pay commensurate with experience" is a thing of the past. As with "company van", "tool accounts", etc...

    The reality is staring the largest companies in the face and it is a difficult equation for even them to figure out. Techs want one thing, accountants want another. The stark reality is...we are the commodity that the company sells. With no commodity to sell, there are no profit margins at all.

    When a company tells me that they are having a "really hard time filling positions" it screams that they don't see the big picture. They are hesitant to bring their pay scale up and above local prevailing. They think that "perks" from 20 years ago are still considered perks. And they think that techs can still be treated as expendable or disposable.

    For those companies, it is time to wake up and get with the program or face the cliff that you are about to fall from.

    My $0.02 worth.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  10. #33
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    Nov 2009
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    Richmond, working under tarps
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    its double time here, and it starts at the time of the call, and ends when the van gets home and turned off

    if we get a call at the end of the day, it goes straight to double time

    time and half is only applied when at the same site

    any after reg business hours work is quoted at double time

    our standby time is paid 8 hours per week

  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Union scale here is 45+ an hour
    guaranteed 8a day & 40 a week

    Plus benefits.

    How do you compare?
    Union scale in Seattle is $60+ an hour. Where I am, north of Seattle, it’s a little over $50/hr.

  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    The reality in all of this....is that the pendulum has shifted. For those of us that started in the trade more than 25 years ago, the employers or the union used to have the upper hand. We used to stand in line for a chance at a good job. Now there are way more jobs available than quality techs to fill them.

    I work for one of the OEMs and we convened a corporate committee (I ended up on it) to come up with a strategy to deal with the shortage. Pay is one thing, benefits another. But we are also dealing with different generational expectations inside of the larger problem. Millennial techs have one set of expectations and the 55 year old crowd has another. Throw in 25 year old apprentices and it turns into a salad bowl of how to make them all happy.

    I've sat in on A LOT of interviews over the last year. Pay is a pressing issue, but there also has to be more to the package. Employers have to be upfront with their expectations and also with what they offer. The old adage of "pay commensurate with experience" is a thing of the past. As with "company van", "tool accounts", etc...

    The reality is staring the largest companies in the face and it is a difficult equation for even them to figure out. Techs want one thing, accountants want another. The stark reality is...we are the commodity that the company sells. With no commodity to sell, there are no profit margins at all.

    When a company tells me that they are having a "really hard time filling positions" it screams that they don't see the big picture. They are hesitant to bring their pay scale up and above local prevailing. They think that "perks" from 20 years ago are still considered perks. And they think that techs can still be treated as expendable or disposable.

    For those companies, it is time to wake up and get with the program or face the cliff that you are about to fall from.

    My $0.02 worth.
    A few years ago, the former editor of CB (Mike) made a post prior to one of the Comfortech gatherings. I think that post has vanished, but it went something like, "If you could ask the head of an HVAC manufacturer a question, what would it be?"

    My question involved what steps the industry would be planning to face the time when the majority of available labor was self obsessed young men who stare at their devices all day, and who could make $50k writing apps for the I-Phone without ever entering an attic space, or standing on a roof repairing a 15 ton Lennox unit in July?

    I didn't make it to the event, so I asked Mike about the question, and he said he did not recall if it was asked of any of the panelists, which included execs from several big companies in HVAC.

    Because this work only happens here (it can't be placed in a file and sent to India like an MRI to be read by a low paid radiologist) and they can't bring in thousands of men from Asia to do the work, what plan do they have to attract and retain the new workers?

    I think they have their heads in the sand.

    Maybe, someplace else.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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  13. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    A few years ago, the former editor of CB (Mike) made a post prior to one of the Comfortech gatherings. I think that post has vanished, but it went something like, "If you could ask the head of an HVAC manufacturer a question, what would it be?"

    My question involved what steps the industry would be planning to face the time when the majority of available labor was self obsessed young men who stare at their devices all day, and who could make $50k writing apps for the I-Phone without ever entering an attic space, or standing on a roof repairing a 15 ton Lennox unit in July?

    I didn't make it to the event, so I asked Mike about the question, and he said he did not recall if it was asked of any of the panelists, which included execs from several big companies in HVAC.

    Because this work only happens here (it can't be placed in a file and sent to India like an MRI to be read by a low paid radiologist) and they can't bring in thousands of men from Asia to do the work, what plan do they have to attract and retain the new workers?

    I think they have their heads in the sand.

    Maybe, someplace else.
    They have a solution. It's the same solution they've used since the dawn of time.

    Technological advancements which reduce the level of skill required to do the job.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

  14. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Because this work only happens here (it can't be placed in a file and sent to India like an MRI to be read by a low paid radiologist) and they can't bring in thousands of men from Asia to do the work, what plan do they have to attract and retain the new workers?

    I think they have their heads in the sand.

    Maybe, someplace else.
    You are correct, they have had their heads in the sand for a long time. At least 2 of the Big 3 OEM's has begun aggressively trying to figure out the R&R (recruitment and retention) problem. The committee that I was on, included some of the very top officers of the company, so they are taking it seriously.

    The problem has many arms and legs and there doesn't appear to be a single line solution. Retention of 50 year olds looks entirely different than retention of 35 year olds. Recruitment is just as convoluted.

    I hear pay mentioned all the time, but the OEM's are paying well above local prevailing, so that can't be all there is to the equation. Guys b!tc% about not wanting to put up with corporate BS. but then b!tc% when some Mom & Pop low balls them. So some of this goes back to work ethic and self pride.

    I make a damn good living doing what I do. The trade off is that I have to deal with the corporate crap. I could work for a mid-sized commercial company that does $20-30M a year gross. The pay might not be the same, but it would be less BS. It is a trade off. As much as we want it all, we can't have it.

    If we don't adjust our demands to match what the company we're working for can afford, then the companies will start disappearing.

    Technicians have the upper hand, without a doubt, but we can't get greedy like the corporations did 20 years ago. That's what led us to this point.

    If we are smart and use this leverage to our advantage, it can create a sustainable model for higher wages and better benefits for a long, long time. If we get greedy, who knows what will happen.

  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    They have a solution. It's the same solution they've used since the dawn of time.

    Technological advancements which reduce the level of skill required to do the job.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    ...And to a certain point I do agree with that premise..that they're going to make parts more easily identified as bad and easily swappable, but you still have to have someone you can put in that truck.... you still have to have someone who is willing to stand on that roof in July or February, and you still have to have someone who has basic skills and knowledge and is willing to apply them to discover which parts need to be replaced.... and right now they don't have much of a plan in place to replace people like me, when I am gone from the ladder climbing in 10 years. I may be able to teach others, but I won't be able to convince an 18 year old that HVAC is a great trade to be in when he can make $80,000 writing code.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
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  16. #39
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    Honeywell you can buy better but you cant pay more

    I told my wife when i die to sell my fishing stuff for what its worth not what i told her i paid for it

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