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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    I've seen a lot of hoods but I have never seen one that looks like that. How is the air supplied into that ? Multiple ducts from the top ?
    I'm gonna guess there is one branch for each 3 panel section. I've seen similar in restaurants but they have all been conditioned. I'm under the impression, the air does NOT require, by local code, conditioning, if it is dumped under the hood. That air is being dumped into the kitchen, and would be conditioned if it were in Chicago.
    Officially, Down for the count

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  2. #15
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    Jun 2013
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    I've never seen a serving line so close to the cooking equipment. Must be deafining there with the hoods fired up.

  3. #16
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    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandShark View Post
    I understand how the make-up air is supposed to work, but in this case, that air is not being directly affected by the exhaust hood. It is blowing out and away from the hood and, though some of the air is being pulled back into the exhaust hood, I would venture to guess that 75% of the air is not being directly pulled back into the hood. When it's 90-95 degrees outside, and adding in the humidity, it is extremely "nasty" air and I can't blame the staff for not wanting to work under those conditions. In some of my other kitchens, the make-up air is deposited within the hoods where it is being exhausted through the hood. But, in this case it is not. Regarding conditioned make-up air being costly, so is pulling out conditioned air through the exhaust fans, running the make-up air units or not.

    The original blueprints show the kitchen equipment and the serving lines exactly where they are located today. Nothing was or has been altered from the original drawings. In the prep area of the kitchen, where the ovens, steamers and other equipment are located, the prep tables are adjacent to the equipment so the food can be removed and prepared the moment it is removed from the equipment. Again, this area was designed that way, as are all the other kitchens in the school district. The problem kitchen is not unique to other kitchens in this school district or is it unique to other commercial kitchens I have seen.

    As far as disabling the make-up air units and only running the exhaust fans, that is being done over other equipment, but the exhaust fans do not pull through HVAC economizers. There is ample fresh air being pumped into the kitchen. It has its own outside air handling unit (OAHU) and it's own air handing units (AHUs) for cooling and heat, so I am perfectly satisfied that CO is not a problem. Not to mention, there are other exhaust fans running that prevent CO from being an issue.

    I am convinced that these exhaust hoods manufactured by Gaylord were either not designed properly for this application or they were not set up correctly when they were installed. I am waiting on a phone call from the manufacturer to see if they can provide some guidance.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  4. #17
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    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    Here's a really good document on kitchen exhaust/keep makeup air design.

    Attachment 804475

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandShark View Post

    I read this years ago, but had forgotten that I had and that there are, indeed, tempered makeup air units. Thanks for the information. This is the most important information, at least for this particular situation:



    So, apparently, the decision makers at the time decided it didn't matter if untempered make-up air was causing discomfort to the kitchen staff.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandShark View Post
    Yeah, I get that restaurants aren't particularly concerned that the kitchen staff are uncomfortable because, let's face it, the turnover is high in restaurants, so why should the owners care if the kitchen staff are uncomfortable? On top of that, cooks and chefs are used to this environment if they've been in the business for any length of time. Also, I get that they're not going to spend money on equipment and utility bills for an area of the building that customers couldn't care less about as long as their food is good. I'm sure, besides labor costs, that the utility bill is one of the highest expenses of owning a restaurant. On the other hand, I've done work in commercial fast food establishments where the kitchens aren't completely separated from the dining area and I can tell you that the kitchens in these establishments are as comfortable as the dining area. So, I don't believe uncomfortable commercial kitchens are necessarily the norm, but that's just a guess on my part.

    One of the factors contributing to the situation I'm facing is that I have to deal with the HVAC people in the Maintenance Department of the school district. The kitchen manager is constantly putting in work orders about the heat in the serving line area. FYI, the kitchen area and the serving line area are two separate areas. Actually, the kitchen area where most of the equipment is located is not the problem. It's the serving line area, particularly the fryer station and the pizza station where each has its own exhaust hood and make-up air. And, of course, all serving lines have hot wells, so the steamed heat coming off the hot wells contributes substantially to the conditions. Then, when you have a fryer and a pizza oven five feet behind where you're serving, you're getting heat from front and back.

    I tried getting the Maintenance Department to locate that AHU's temperature sensor for the serving area to an area that more accurately senses the temperature in the space, but they claim the problem is from the ventilation system, which falls on my shoulders. I'm a one man show, so I don't have the firepower to go up against the Maintenance Department and, quite frankly, they couldn't care less about the kitchens. It's like we're the red-headed step child in the school district. Before I open up a can of worms by going to my boss, who will then go to her boss (which is also the Director of the Maintenance Department's boss), I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. That's why I'm trying to find out how I can get this ventilation system where it needs to before I get drawn into a battle between my boss and the maintenance department, which I know is coming sooner rather than later.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    Just because a kitchen design meets the requirements of the air movement codes doesn't mean the design is good. Not running the MAU'S doesn't mean the unconditioned air is no longer entering the building it just means it is entering from another source or most likely multiple sources. You are going to pay to condition it no matter where it comes in. Proper quantities of make-up air, properly located and directed make-up air diffusers many times diminishes how uncomfortable unconditioned make-up air is. The kitchen system should be tested and balanced by a certified TAB contractor before trying to take corrective action of any kind. Let them know the problems experienced and ask for suggestions.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    I'm gonna guess there is one branch for each 3 panel section. I've seen similar in restaurants but they have all been conditioned. I'm under the impression, the air does NOT require, by local code, conditioning, if it is dumped under the hood. That air is being dumped into the kitchen, and would be conditioned if it were in Chicago.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    I'm gonna guess there is one branch for each 3 panel section. I've seen similar in restaurants but they have all been conditioned. I'm under the impression, the air does NOT require, by local code, conditioning, if it is dumped under the hood. That air is being dumped into the kitchen, and would be conditioned if it were in Chicago.
    👍

  10. #23
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    I've seen a lot of hoods but I have never seen one that looks like that. How is the air supplied into that ? Multiple ducts from the top ?
    By roof mounted, ducted, filtered, belt driven squirrel-cage blowers inside a sheet metal box.
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandShark View Post
    By roof mounted, ducted, filtered, belt driven squirrel-cage blowers inside a sheet metal box.
    I was referring to how's it tied into the top of the hood. Middle, ends, both ?
    The best setup I've seen is the make up down the back wall exiting low behind the equipment.

  12. #25
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    Picture is sideways but you'll get the idea. The bottom of that duct is open with a screen over it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #26
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    Thread Starter
    From the MUA unit on the roof, a square sheet metal duct runs down to the hood where it “manifolds”, for lack of a better description, to each section of the hood where you see the perforated panels. For the hoods in question, there are 3 perforated panel sections in each hood.
    With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.

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