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  1. #1
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    Rational Leaking

    I’m getting my a$$ kicked on an SCC WE 61E. This is the bottom combi of a stacked duo. The complaint is that it leaks badly during a clean cycle and there’s a slimy congealed substance in the drip collector and the drain pipe that connects to the drip collector. In fact, that drain pipe is chalk full of the stuff. See the pic.

    What I believe that substance to be is the chemical slurry that’s mixed in the Care drawer. I don’t think it’s all being pumped into the boiler. In the clean cycle, once the Care pump is finished pumping there’s water that flows back into the drawer. I what I’m thinking is that there’s already water in the drawer and the water flowing back into the drawer causes it to overflow. Either that or the board isn’t always turning the Care pump on and the valve is overflowing the drawer all together.

    Have any of you guys seen this before?

    The leak comes from the Care pump/drawer area. And it’s not so much a leak as a flood. I’ve been all over the piping and the boiler and still can’t find a reason for this.






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  2. #2
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    VanMan, all I can think of on the fly is a blockage in the drain valve or main drain pipe. Another possibility is the main drain pipe is slanted uphill, causing backflow into the drip collector drainpipe.
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  3. #3
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    With the unit at rest, pull open the drawer slightly, drain down the boiler a little, then activate the care pump for 10 seconds, watching the drawer. Does it freely keep up with the incoming water flow, ie doesn't overflow? Does it refill the boiler freely (watch the propbe status.)

    Possibly the hose to or from the pump is clogged? Pull it off and, using a section of clean hose, blow through the pump to the boiler.

    They are using the proper square unwrapped tablets in the care box, yes? Not rinse tabs, in other words.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    VanMan, all I can think of on the fly is a blockage in the drain valve or main drain pipe. Another possibility is the main drain pipe is slanted uphill, causing backflow into the drip collector drainpipe.
    Drains are clear and slanted properly. They have only about a 7 inch horizontal run before they empty into the floor drain.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    With the unit at rest, pull open the drawer slightly, drain down the boiler a little, then activate the care pump for 10 seconds, watching the drawer. Does it freely keep up with the incoming water flow, ie doesn't overflow? Does it refill the boiler freely (watch the propbe status.)

    Possibly the hose to or from the pump is clogged? Pull it off and, using a section of clean hose, blow through the pump to the boiler.

    They are using the proper square unwrapped tablets in the care box, yes? Not rinse tabs, in other words.
    The pump definitely keeps up and can fill the boiler. I can hold the Care pump + Y4 valve in all day and it keeps up.

    I’ve pulled the hose off completely several times, no clog. I pulled the boiler and looked inside, it’s shockingly clean. I was hoping to find an ostrich ion where the pump hose enters the boiler but I didn’t. That said, I can’t actually see into that section of the boiler. But I did force some wire in the tube where the Care pump hose connects and it was clear.

    They are using the correct tabs. In fact, they only use half the requested amount so it’s not like there’s too much chemical or anything.

    Some tests I’ve done:

    -Comparing this bottom combi to the top combi, I pulled both Care pump hoses off the boiler and ran both pumps at the same time. They filled a bucket in the same amount of time.

    -I compared the flow rate of Y4 between the two combis, using the CDS as as my gauge, both were with 20 mL of each other. Right around 4000mL.

    -I turned the flow rate down to about 2000 mL and the problem continued.

    -I replaced the Care pump, at the request of the sites home office, the problem went away for a few days, then came back.

    I was thinking that maybe during the clean cycle, Y4 is being energized but the Care pump isn’t. I personally haven’t seen that AND the boiler is shiny clean so I don’t believe that’s happening. I mean, some chemical must be getting in there if the boiler is that clean. I was also thinking that maybe there is something in the boiler preventing all of the chemical slurry from being pumped into the boiler. I don’t think that’s the case either though because I can run that pump till the cows come home and all the water from the Care drawer gets pumped into the boiler.

    I just don’t know at this point.






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  6. #6
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    Wow, looks like you've covered all the bases. I'd be on the phone to Rational for sure. Reflash the software to the latest version and retest before calling though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    Wow, looks like you've covered all the bases. I'd be on the phone to Rational for sure. Reflash the software to the latest version and retest before calling though.
    It’s up to date on the software. I’ve been on the phone with Rational several times. This morning I called and I was a little pissy with them and told them I would only talk to Grant, the head of service. He didn’t call me back, one of his underlings did. They didn’t have anything to offer, as per usual. They requested pics and video so that’s my next step.


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  8. #8
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    Sheeze, I'm getting old. Grant was the new kid seems like just yesterday. If Pete is still there, send him an email.

    Man, I'm thinking, what would I do in your boots.

    Any chance the care tray solenoid is leaking over time? Maybe opening with water pressure "bumps" in the incoming line from other equipment.

    Any chance the boiler steam hose is blocked, such that the pump actually pressurizes the boiler, then when it stops it backflows into the drip drain?

    Water level probes sanded clean? No shorts to ground.

    Maybe lift a wire off the care solenoid, run through a clean & care cycle, does the tray fill with water? Ahh, no that should throw an error with no flow.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    Any chance the boiler steam hose is blocked, such that the pump actually pressurizes the boiler, then when it stops it backflows into the drip drain?
    That one's not possible. The boiler is a straight shot in, so the hose only holds the 2" boiler outlet butted up to the cooking compartment inlet. Besides, the drain hose is always open too.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanMan812 View Post
    What I believe that substance to be is the chemical slurry that’s mixed in the Care drawer. I don’t think it’s all being pumped into the boiler. In the clean cycle, once the Care pump is finished pumping there’s water that flows back into the drawer. I what I’m thinking is that there’s already water in the drawer and the water flowing back into the drawer causes it to overflow. Either that or the board isn’t always turning the Care pump on and the valve is overflowing the drawer all together.
    Care tabs dissolve quite readily - much like sugar or salt. That snake-shaped congealed mass in your picture looks like FAT.

    From my own experience with a cook who set the same SCC101G on fire THREE TIMES (I finally got him fired), I can't ignore the innovative ways cooks can find to MISUSE/ABUSE equipment.

    Just throwing this in as we're brain-storming to solve your problem:

    If I was some untrained, knuckeheaded young cook who doesn't know any better, I'd be looking at the Care drawer as a great place to pour stuff in - like the fat from the bottom of a hotel pan.
    • THEN...the fat cools and congeals.
    • THEN...somebody else runs it in a CareControl cycle.

    The pump tries to pump the congealed fat that's in the LOWER portion of the drawer...and clogging the drain pipe. During initial pump operation, it gets into the pump outlet hose - thus, hindering the cleaning solution's flow. Meanwhile the Care drawer overflows until the congealed mass works its way into the boiler.

    Just my thoughts.

    I'm done imagining things now...
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

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  11. #10
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    > If I was some untrained, knuckeheaded young cook who doesn't know any better, I'd be looking at the Care drawer as a great place to
    > pour stuff in - like the fat from the bottom of a hotel pan.

    > THEN...the fat cools and congeals.
    > THEN...somebody else runs it in a CareControl cycle.

    Hey Hey! Halloween is over, buddy. Now I'll have nightmares tonight.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    That one's not possible. The boiler is a straight shot in, so the hose only holds the 2" boiler outlet butted up to the cooking compartment inlet. Besides, the drain hose is always open too.



    Care tabs dissolve quite readily - much like sugar or salt. That snake-shaped congealed mass in your picture looks like FAT.

    From my own experience with a cook who set the same SCC101G on fire THREE TIMES (I finally got him fired), I can't ignore the innovative ways cooks can find to MISUSE/ABUSE equipment.

    Just throwing this in as we're brain-storming to solve your problem:

    If I was some untrained, knuckeheaded young cook who doesn't know any better, I'd be looking at the Care drawer as a great place to pour stuff in - like the fat from the bottom of a hotel pan.
    • THEN...the fat cools and congeals.
    • THEN...somebody else runs it in a CareControl cycle.

    The pump tries to pump the congealed fat that's in the LOWER portion of the drawer...and clogging the drain pipe. During initial pump operation, it gets into the pump outlet hose - thus, hindering the cleaning solution's flow. Meanwhile the Care drawer overflows until the congealed mass works its way into the boiler.

    Just my thoughts.

    I'm done imagining things now...
    In the beginning I thought that slimy stuff came from them steaming all of their rice and pasta in the combi. You know that slipperiness that’s left over after boiling up some spaghetti. I’m still not convinced that’s it’s not from that but I was told it comes from the Care tabs. And when I grab that slimy snake it feels very slippery, like soapy almost. It’s definitely not fat. It’s not greasy and it easily dissolves with cold water.

    You know what, your Care drawer-dumping-spot theory is making me think about this differently. What I’m thinking is that the overflowing is being caused by the slimy stuff. I was originally thinking that the overflowing was causing the slime buildup but now not so much. I didn’t make it back there today, fought with a troubled Merrychef for most of the day. I cleared that slime snake yesterday so I’m wondering if, when they ran a clean cycle last night, if it overflowed?? I’m inclined to think it did not. I think that because, over the several trips out on this machine, each time I clear that slime snake the unit seems to run ok for a day or two. I think. I know I thought I had fixed it once when I cleaned the water probe and reset the boiler. It worked fine for 2-3 days afterword and I’m sure I cleaned the drain that day too. You might be on too something there.

    But then where is that slime coming from? Maybe it really is the pasta/rice theory? Maybe the glass is warped and it leaks? I need to go back and park my butt in front of it again and test these theories.


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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    Hey Hey! Halloween is over, buddy. Now I'll have nightmares tonight.
    (the new LIKE button because it don't work)
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanMan812 View Post
    Maybe the glass is warped and it leaks? I need to go back and park my butt in front of it again and test these theories.
    Thought of that myself at one point, but did't know what they're cookin'. Maybe something they're cooking is dripping down from around the door gasket. That's reaching, but not beyond possibility.

    Hey! Maybe it just needs a new door gasket or a door adjustment. Wouldn't that be nice and you can move on.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

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