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  1. #1
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    Oct 2018
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    BACNET IP Troubleshooting

    Working on an integration project with another controls company. We are able to discover devices from all but one of their panels. I can see the devices locally, but not outside of the network. It appears to be a networking issue but cannot prove that to the IT department, and they claim to have verified all ports are open and nothing is filtering the Bacnet packets. Does anyone have any suggestions as what to check to get this resolved?

    *This is for a school district. We have a front end at the district office. The computer is on the same "network" as the schools but different sub net.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Do you have a BBMD?

    BACNET - WHAT IS BACNET BBMD?
    BACnet discovery uses two services - one is called ‘Who-Is’ and the other ‘I-Am’. They rely on the use of broadcasts.

    Routers join IP networks together so that messages from one network can be sent to another. Most routers do not forward broadcast messages and this means discovery can't discover devices on another network.

    To solve this problem, BACnet provides a technology called BBMD - BACnet/IP Broadcast Management Device.

    Overall, the technology is simple. You install a BBMD (might be a physical device or just a software application on a computer) on each network. You can configure the BBMD by specifying the IP Address and mask of the each BBMD. This makes both BBMD configs identical. When the one BBM receives a broadcast, it forwards the messages to the other BBMD, which in turn re-broadcasts on the other network. They are configured by BDT files and these may be modified on the fly using select Bacnet services.

    The technology also provides for foreign device registration. This allows a device on one network to communicate with a device on another network by using the BBMD to forward and route the messages.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Yes we have a panel onsite setup as a BBMD. We can see three other panels and the devices out of them. We cannot discover the devices out of a certain Trane panel.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    What’s all your network addresses in the ones that work and the ones that don’t? IP , subnet, gateway, bbmd info if using it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Oct 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by bolt950rider View Post
    WhatÂ’s all your network addresses in the ones that work and the ones that donÂ’t? IP , subnet, gateway, bbmd info if using it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Working panels- 10.30.200.13,10.30.200.14,10.30.200.15
    Panel not talking- 10.30.200.12
    Subnet Mask for all is 255.255.255.0
    Gateway is 10.30.200.1

    These are Trane panels. We have our own Siemens panels onsite, one of which is setup as the BBMD. The IP address for our BBMD is 10.30.200.11. In the BBMD table we have this IP address and the IP address for our Insight Computer. At our Insight computer we have the address of our panel added in as well.

    Trane is providing devices with instance numbers in the range of 1000001 through 1001018 that we cannot discover.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2018
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    Looks like the IP settings make sense.
    I don’t use bbmd much but With BBMD don’t all devices using it need to know about all the others who are using it? So could the Trane panel be missing some?

    Example 3 devices communicating to 1 server via bbmd
    Server- has Device1, Device2, Device3 ip info
    Device1- has Server, Device2,Device 3 ip info
    Device2- has Server, Device1,Device 3 ip info
    Device3- has Server, Device1,Device 2 ip info
    I


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Thread Starter
    To my knowledge having more then one BBMD on a network is a big no no.
    With that being said, there is no need to specify the the Information of other panels in all the devices, because they are not BBMD's and it shouldnt matter as long as they are on the same network you should see the broadcasts from them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinc View Post
    Working panels- 10.30.200.13,10.30.200.14,10.30.200.15

    These are Trane panels. We have our own Siemens panels onsite, one of which is setup as the BBMD. The IP address for our BBMD is 10.30.200.11. In the BBMD table we have this IP address and the IP address for our Insight Computer. At our Insight computer we have the address of our panel added in as well.

    Trane is providing devices with instance numbers in the range of 1000001 through 1001018 that we cannot discover.
    Are the network numbers in the Trane panels for the MSTP trunks all unique. The network number becomes part of the device instance.

  9. #9
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    May 2009
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    Sounds like either the mask or gateway is incorrect on that device that won't discover, more like the gateway. When you did local discovery you used their switch or yours?

  10. #10
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    Oct 2018
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    @ t-reck All of the device instance numbers are unique. Trane has three VRF panels and one Tracer SC panel ( which has Trane equipment that we cannot see) the three VRF panels are networks 10,11, and 12. The Tracer SC panel appears to be on the same network (10) with all devices having unique instance numbers. We did an integration project on another school with the exact same setup and this worked. (Numbering varied at other location, but same idea).
    @MaxBurn we thought the same thing. Had Trane verify all network information was correct, I looked over his shoulder while he did that. Using my laptop, I patched into the network switch onsite that all of the Trane panels are plugged into and our Siemens panels as well. Using Commtools I sent a custom who-is for that device range that we are missing and I was able to discover all missing devices. Using wire shark locally I can see all broadcasts and packets. When I get back to our Front End I can not see the same results. I can see The Who-is with wireshark but no response.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinc View Post
    @ t-reck All of the device instance numbers are unique. Trane has three VRF panels and one Tracer SC panel ( which has Trane equipment that we cannot see) the three VRF panels are networks 10,11, and 12. The Tracer SC panel appears to be on the same network (10) with all devices having unique instance numbers. We did an integration project on another school with the exact same setup and this worked. (Numbering varied at other location, but same idea).
    @MaxBurn we thought the same thing. Had Trane verify all network information was correct, I looked over his shoulder while he did that. Using my laptop, I patched into the network switch onsite that all of the Trane panels are plugged into and our Siemens panels as well. Using Commtools I sent a custom who-is for that device range that we are missing and I was able to discover all missing devices. Using wire shark locally I can see all broadcasts and packets. When I get back to our Front End I can not see the same results. I can see The Who-is with wireshark but no response.
    Does the SC show up as a BACnet device itself? If it has any BACnet points programmed in it, they would show up. That will verify UDP connectivity to the SC. After that, it acts as a router to the MSTP trunks. Can you get the login screen of the SC via browser from the front end PC? You don't need any credentials for the BACnet data, that will verify network connectivity.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-reck View Post
    Does the SC show up as a BACnet device itself? If it has any BACnet points programmed in it, they would show up. That will verify UDP connectivity to the SC. After that, it acts as a router to the MSTP trunks. Can you get the login screen of the SC via browser from the front end PC? You don't need any credentials for the BACnet data, that will verify network connectivity.
    No the SC does not show up. But yes i can get to the web interface for the SC from the front end. I can ping the panel, and see the web interface but cannot get any data out of it. I don't have credentials to log in.

  13. #13
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    Sounds to me like the SC might have BBMD enabled. Are you able to login to the SC to make changes? If Trane pulled the VRF panels into the SC, I’m betting they used BACnet/IP and the SC is setup as a BBMD.

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