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  1. #14
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    Jul 2018
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    I have saved the paperwork for a few of the units we have worked on, but did not get the manual for the economizer. I'll be sure to grab the manuals for everything we work on from here on out.

    I only plugged in the Outdoor air quality sensor (we were in a cramped space) and wired up the CO2 sensor. However, the other guy I worked with has been doing this 3 years and wired up the entire thing. So I suppose at some point they will teach me how to wire it up entirely. I am sure I can troubleshoot it once I know how to wire it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Now there's a good one to follow up on. Meaning, did you save the paperwork? If the econo doesn't work, could you troubleshoot it to determine which component was bad or not wired proper?

    Seriously. I'll bet more than half the guys in this trade cannot walk up to the wide variety of econo's and properly troubleshoot them. Below are folders I carry in the truck, notice there is one for economizers. There's a lot of them out there that don't work, and those are good repairs for the owners of them.

  2. #15
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    Jul 2018
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    Thread Starter
    You have me worried Mikey, do you think my description of my first week is a decent stepping stone into commercial service? Really don't want to be wasting my time.

    "During my first week, we have installed smoke detectors on a few units with annunciators, wired some thermostats, wired an economizer, inspected/fixed some swamp coolers, wired a drive, charged a couple units and did some air balancing."

    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Tell me some more -

    True start-ups - with EVERY POSSIBLE THING checked and then written down on a start-up-report - are a very valuable learning experience.

    Show start-ups - turning on the power and then checking the ones that don't run - is a waste of your time.

    What, exactly, does "a start-up" consist of in your experience so far?

    PHM
    ----------

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by asanta27 View Post
    You have me worried Mikey, do you think my description of my first week is a decent stepping stone into commercial service? Really don't want to be wasting my time.

    "During my first week, we have installed smoke detectors on a few units with annunciators, wired some thermostats, wired an economizer, inspected/fixed some swamp coolers, wired a drive, charged a couple units and did some air balancing."
    Your not doing start ups, your doing the exact same thing i did shortly out of school for commercial jobs. You are on the right track as far as im concerned. You will see that many experienced installers dont do this task. I still do it from time to time.

    Starting up roof tops most times includes making sure the compressor goes the right direction and a few measurements-and thats all. No contractor is going to spend alot of time on that. Just soak it in and read and aspire for a while, my guess is you still have plenty to learn on what your doing now and nothing is stopping you from learning beyond your day to day and going back over the fundamentals.

    Take advantage of your over qualification under worked scenario and maintain vigilance, acquire knowledge. Believe it or not, a fast paced service position can be less beneficial to your overall knowledge gaining sceme.




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  5. #17
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    Jul 2018
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks Core_d. Truly appreciate the reassurance.

    But if I'm not doing startups, than what is my position? Am I more of an installer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    Your not doing start ups, your doing the exact same thing i did shortly out of school for commercial jobs. You are on the right track as far as im concerned. You will see that many experienced installers dont do this task. I still do it from time to time.

    Starting up roof tops most times includes making sure the compressor goes the right direction and a few measurements-and thats all. No contractor is going to spend alot of time on that. Just soak it in and read and aspire for a while, my guess is you still have plenty to learn on what your doing now and nothing is stopping you from learning beyond your day to day and going back over the fundamentals.

    Take advantage of your over qualification under worked scenario and maintain vigilance, acquire knowledge. Believe it or not, a fast paced service position can be less beneficial to your overall knowledge gaining sceme.




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  6. #18
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    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    No not an installer, from my experience you are a fresh hire that has formal education, your on the track for service. Most places i have worked at keep the two independent, especially in commercial.

    Im no installer by any means but, can get by or be a decent helper, like wise is true when a installer accompanies me on a service type job. Ofcoarse many folks on this site are proficient in both sectors but thats often not the case. Many very good installers have trouble wiring up anything more than the most basic systems and understanding the motivation behind it, that is were you come in.




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  8. #19
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    Aug 2016
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    San Diego
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    I'd say that's a good place to start. I'd rather start up and commissioning all day than slam filters. I usually check more than I have to because I don't trust anyone. Like a couple weeks ago I did the startups on a couple of RTUs and a Make up air unit. The Makeup air unit pulley and sheave were put of alignment from the factory and causing the belts to fray within the month or two it has been up there before I actually did the start up. Most guys would have just let it go because many assume that people at the factory are do their jobs.

    Another piece of advice: question everything! If a unit blows out a compressor figure out why it did it dont just replace the compressor and hope it never happens again. Another example from that same building: The walkin freezer compressor sounded like it was rattling it self to death. I think maybe the morons that screwed everything else up in this building just phased it wrong. But it sounded the same. So I also found that during the day this thing wont run long enough to pull it down before it goes off on internal thermal overload. It has a oil sight glass which is black, so I depress the oil Schrader and it just oozes out black and you can see small metal flakes. Ok that tells me the bearings went to shit. Come to find out that this thing has gone through 2 compressors in 2 months with that being the second now. I call heatcraft tech support and engineering support to find out this unit is 9000 btus and really only needs to be 3000 based on a 8x8x8 box, 4 inch walls, in the middle of the building, with the entry door inside the walk in cooler. So we determined that the unit short cyled it self to death by not getting enough oil return and to a lesser extent not being charged properly to have the liquid cooling work.

    So I tell the GC and they basically ignore my suggestion and have a local refer company swap out the compressor for a new one on a Friday. By tuesday it the new compressor was making the same grinding rattling sound and the oil was black.

    Remember you cant win them all, but you can feel better about your self knowing that you figured out the actual problem instead of treating a symptom as the cause of failure.

    Dont really know where I was going with that but good luck man. You're in a good place to learn and stick with it until you get bored with it or you cant grow at the company you're at any more.

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  10. #20
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    Dec 2006
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    Vancouver, B.C.
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    Don't take the manuals off site! Just look them up and print them as you need them. Don't hoop the next guy when they are there at night in the pouring rain trying to fix the thing after hours! That could be you going back to a unit you have never been to before in the future that someone else has taken the manual for. The manuals are the customers property and are to be kept with the units for whatever tech needs them.


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    Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!

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  12. #21
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    Oct 2014
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    Columbus, Ohio
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    Yes but if there are 6 of the same unit, it's probably safe to keep one of the manuals.
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Don't take the manuals off site! Just look them up and print them as you need them. Don't hoop the next guy when they are there at night in the pouring rain trying to fix the thing after hours! That could be you going back to a unit you have never been to before in the future that someone else has taken the manual for. The manuals are the customers property and are to be kept with the units for whatever tech needs them.


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  13. #22
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    May 2014
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    Bay Area California
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    There are several different types, with a variety of sensors. Some of the outdoor air sensors are just Klixons, on or off. Others are a resistance. Still others use a milli amp signal between 4 & 20.

    The bigger point here is there is a lot to learn, troubleshooting is a lot different than installing something new. What you need to do is get a few more meaningful posts (you'll need 15), then apply for Pro Membership. After a few weeks you'll get access to the rest of the site.

    And every time you see a link to a manual, IOM, or schematics, then download it to a directory with file names that make it easy to locate later.. Keep it organized. In a manner you'll easily be able locate it in the future. That stuff is not posted in the area you currently have access to.

    Of course you'll need a computer, seems the kids nowadays do everything on their smarty phones, and don't own a computer. Not sure how you store dozens upon dozens or hundreds of files on a smarty phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by asanta27 View Post
    I have saved the paperwork for a few of the units we have worked on, but did not get the manual for the economizer. I'll be sure to grab the manuals for everything we work on from here on out.

    I only plugged in the Outdoor air quality sensor (we were in a cramped space) and wired up the CO2 sensor. However, the other guy I worked with has been doing this 3 years and wired up the entire thing. So I suppose at some point they will teach me how to wire it up entirely. I am sure I can troubleshoot it once I know how to wire it.
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

    Did you really need the " If you were a real tech " ??

  14. #23
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    Dec 2012
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    columbus, OH
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    Well...if ya wanna get to heaven ill tell ya what to do, ya grease your feet with a mutten stew. Then you slide out of the devils hands and ooze on over to the promise land.. go easy.. go greasy..


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  15. #24
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    Aug 2016
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    San Diego
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    You can store it in your google drive account. Uses the cloud to store it and you can access it anywhere you have internet. If you dont you can download everything to a microSD card and store it on your phone. Those microSD can store over 500gb on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    There are several different types, with a variety of sensors. Some of the outdoor air sensors are just Klixons, on or off. Others are a resistance. Still others use a milli amp signal between 4 & 20.

    The bigger point here is there is a lot to learn, troubleshooting is a lot different than installing something new. What you need to do is get a few more meaningful posts (you'll need 15), then apply for Pro Membership. After a few weeks you'll get access to the rest of the site.

    And every time you see a link to a manual, IOM, or schematics, then download it to a directory with file names that make it easy to locate later.. Keep it organized. In a manner you'll easily be able locate it in the future. That stuff is not posted in the area you currently have access to.

    Of course you'll need a computer, seems the kids nowadays do everything on their smarty phones, and don't own a computer. Not sure how you store dozens upon dozens or hundreds of files on a smarty phone.

  16. #25
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    Dec 2012
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    Paper reads better on a roof, at noon there is no shade and you cant read a thing on your phone if your up on a roof.


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  17. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    Paper reads better on a roof, at noon there is no shade and you cant read a thing on your phone if your up on a roof.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If someone hadn't taken the manual with them. You would have the manual that came with that piece of equipment.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

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