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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Fort Worth, Tx.
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    This has been debated with technicians since the saddle/ piercing valve was invented. Lol I remember when I first graduated tech school and landed my first job with a commercial refrigeration company. My mentor was 55 years old ( god bless his soul) very knowledgeable guy and taught me a lot that I use to this day. He said to never leave the piercing valve on the system because if it leaks you will look like a fool because the next guy behind you will bash you into the ground!
    Well, after 6 months as a newbie I switched mentors and what do you know! He told me to install the saddle valve and diagnose the issue. Well I did and found it low on refrigerant. We did a leak search and it was on the hot gas line in the drain pan. We put new copper in the drain pan and I asked if he wanted me to braze in service ports and he said no way, that thing will last forever! Lol I said well Tracy ( first mentor) said never to leave these on a system he said forget about that they will last longer than you will at this job!
    I was green in 92 but looking back and reading this thread I canít help to laugh. In my opinion I never leave them in the system I only diagnose with them. Reason being, if you tap into a sealed system on the low side and find the suction pressure low you have a decision to make, is it low on charge, or is it a restriction. Then you proceed to add gas and it works. Well, if you added the gas and it works then it probably has a leak and you need to find it for the sake of your customer. If you find the leak do you repair it and leave the saddle valve there? I would hope not! If you do not find the leak then it would be appropriate to let the customer know what you did and added refrigerant but couldnít find the leak.
    I never leave any saddle valves on any system but thatís me. I have found the orange rubber gaskets leak over time due to rot. I have found a handful in my time.
    Iím sure there are times and situations where leaving a saddle valve on the system is the only way out but they will leak in time just like flare fittings do. A sealed system is the best in my opinion and if it was my equipment thatís what I would want. Sorry for the long thread but it brought back some good old refrigeration debating!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    18,084
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    I'm not so sure that "orange" gasket has anything to do with leaking other than when the valve is open. It's the needle point pushed into the tube that stops flow Now there may be a point after it's been shoved into it's little hole one to many times a problem could develop.

    Also you didn't mention where the tech adds gas and the unit starts working. Not because it was a leak but a restriction held back refrigerant. He adds gas increaseing the pressure to force more refrigerant through. That's when I find the overload wore out or the start cap. There after the compressor.

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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    upstate NY
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    135
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    Hmmmm.
    Service valve leak stems over time and use,sometimes on a brand new unit .Schrader cores leak due to old age and use(on the discharge line,"really"). I guess we should never use them. IF everything is perfect we must seal system totally by welding shut process tubes every time?
    If the bullet valve is tightened until the halves meet(most aren't) I find them to be at least as semi permanent as other access ports.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Treasure coast, FL
    Posts
    7,911
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    I'm not so sure that "orange" gasket has anything to do with leaking other than when the valve is open. It's the needle point pushed into the tube that stops flow Now there may be a point after it's been shoved into it's little hole one to many times a problem could develop.

    Also you didn't mention where the tech adds gas and the unit starts working. Not because it was a leak but a restriction held back refrigerant. He adds gas increaseing the pressure to force more refrigerant through. That's when I find the overload wore out or the start cap. There after the compressor.
    There are styles of piercing valves that only use the needle for the initial piercing and then the gasket and Schrader core are all that's between the sealed system and the real world.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    18,084
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    There are styles of piercing valves that only use the needle for the initial piercing and then the gasket and Schrader core are all that's between the sealed system and the real world.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
    Yeah those suck !
    The debate is on the 3 screws Supco ones.
    I can come up with at least 3 variations off the top of my head if we want to expand the discussion.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    upstate NY
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    135
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    Nope
    Time to move on. I'm not going to ever get some to try to go against the "internet professional rules" and try something different, because they are always right. Just saying its not always the same when you get away from the keyboard.
    I don't have the diverse knowledge that a few profess to have by responding to every post on all aspects of hvac and refrigeration. I'm limited to what I have actually experienced in my narrow field.

    Back to obscurity,I'll still monitor the site and learn what i can and let the few have their game back to pump up their egos.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Wi
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    I won't say I never saw one leak but all things considered they are a very good product.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Yep you've witnessed some arm chair warriors here for sure. They know who they are. Like to see them in the "real world" actually fixing chit with their hands and not just the finger tips.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Where we mow our own grass
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    Yep you've witnessed some arm chair warriors here for sure. They know who they are. Like to see them in the "real world" actually fixing chit with their hands and not just the finger tips.
    Ainít that the truth

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike19 View Post
    Ainít that the truth
    X3


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "It's just like it doesn't work. I mean it seems to be ok now, but it usually like never works"

    "Never an always and always a maybe"

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    4
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    Iím installing a bullet piercing valve on a QBD drink cooler today to check and see if the charge has been lost. Customer has complained that the unit is not working. Iíve checked the evap and condenser for dirt ect the compressor is running. Does anyone have experience with these units and any suggestions?

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    18,084
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    First you should start a new thread.
    Second use a stubby gauge.
    Third unplug the cooler before you gauge up.
    Forth if R134a look for a low side pressure of 20-15 psig depending on cooler temperature.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,299
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    Uhm... everything leaks over time.

    Had one of those super cheap units, you know, the ones with metric self drillers lol.

    Hot gas line 105, cond3nser tubes 82, liquid line 82, delta cond 3, delta evap 3, suction line temp 68 somp amps 68% rla, no service ports, unit about 5 years old.

    Arguments can be made all day long but the reality is, you can buy a new one for under 1k so there is not much room for repairs or additional diagnostic.

    There are no good choices.

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