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  1. #1
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    Modbus into Niagara Supervisor

    I have a site with 17 JACEs, a mix of 6000E and 8000. I would like to do away with all the JACEs and bring them directly into a supervisor via BACnet/IP. My issue is that there are handful of Modbus RTU over RS485 links. Has anyone had any success with a Modbus converter to convert the 485 to TCP to be brought into the supervisor?

  2. #2
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    The jaces you have can do it and I'd assume you already have the licensing to do it if they are currently reading the points. You could just dumb them down to the point where they are just modbus gateways.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    The jaces you have can do it and I'd assume you already have the licensing to do it if they are currently reading the points. You could just dumb them down to the point where they are just modbus gateways.
    Are you suggesting the JACE can function to route the Modbus RS-485 to Modbus TCP? I know that the JACE can function as a BACnet router, but was not aware that it could also handle modbus in the same way. Any suggestion to where I might look for it?

  4. #4
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    https://resources.lynxspring.com/ind.../modbus-driver

    Unlike BACnet you need to actually map the points one for one in and out, but pretty much any modbus gateway will function the same. It's not a modbus router, it's a gateway. Or maybe just pull in your modbus and expose them to bacnet, that could work. It's a jace, tons of options. May run into a licensing issue, I don't know if modbus IP is licensed different from serial, or may be a point limitation now as you are effectively doubling points if pulling in and turning around and exposing.

  5. #5
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    If you use the JACE as a modbus gateway then you are not getting rid of the JACE as your previously stated intention.
    If you do want to keep the JACE as a modbus gateway, one way to do it is to create a modbus TCP Slave device in your JACE then just data transfer the values from your modbus RS-485 Master network to this new modbus TCP slave. devices. Your supervisor can then read the values from this new modbus TCP slave.
    I am just curious that you are concerned about single-point failure scenario with all logics residing in the supervisor. Can you share your thoughts?
    Thanks!

  6. #6
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    There are plenty of reliable and cheap, transparent Modbus TCP to Modbus RTU routers out there.
    I assume you can get a Modbus TCP license for a supervisor? If so, should be able to pull this off.
    I don't deal with supervisors or jaces than often, but seems like that is better solution than making the jaces mapping gateway. But there is always the cost considerations of adding new hardware to the mix.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dx9100 View Post
    If you use the JACE as a modbus gateway then you are not getting rid of the JACE as your previously stated intention.
    If you do want to keep the JACE as a modbus gateway, one way to do it is to create a modbus TCP Slave device in your JACE then just data transfer the values from your modbus RS-485 Master network to this new modbus TCP slave. devices. Your supervisor can then read the values from this new modbus TCP slave.
    I am just curious that you are concerned about single-point failure scenario with all logics residing in the supervisor. Can you share your thoughts?
    Thanks!
    Most of the logic exists in the individual devices, so a supervisor failure is not as much of a concern in this case, but something worth considering. I'm not oppose to leaving a few of the JACEs to function as a gateway for the modbus devices, but manually mapping all the points over will be a nightmare.

  8. #8
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    https://www.ccontrols.com/basautomat...sgatewaylx.php

    Creates individual virtual BACnet devices for every Modbus device. If you have a bunch of typical Modbus devices wouldn't be to hard to set up a profile and run with it. They also have a bunch of profiles already created for certain Modbus devices.

    https://www.ccontrols.com/support/ba...x_profiles.htm

    May not be cheaper than re-using the JACEs, but probably quicker than fat fingering in all the Modbus addresses.

    kontrol out
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  9. #9
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    If you were going to keep the Jaces with modbus on them, why wouldn't you just use the niagara network to get the points to the super. Too easy?
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    If you were going to keep the Jaces with modbus on them, why wouldn't you just use the niagara network to get the points to the super. Too easy?
    I don't necessarily want to keep the JACEs, but if they could function as a gateway that would prevent having to purchase more hardware. The Niagara system is internally managed by the customer, while all staff has been Niagara certified, experience level varies. Having all the devices live in one station makes it much easier to deal with.

  11. #11
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    I would assume these modbus points are already up in the super, lets say they aren't.

    It would take maybe 15-30 min a jace to setup export tags and tag an unlimited number of modbus points with prog service. Click join and its done, no chance to make a mistake and cross something.

    Or

    You could try and turn these into a a gateway. First issue, you will need to add a license for modbus in the super and pay for however many points. Then by hand recreate all the points in each jace on the IP side to export them. Then link each point in the 485 side to the IP side by hand again, while praying you don't go cross eyed and make mistakes that you will have track back down and correct. I can't think of a more painful way of doing it.

    Dump the jace and toss in a 485->IP gateway or just use the niag network.

    Donno, sounds like they are trading one set of problems with another to dump a dozen some jaces and try and pull this into one super direct. At least that's my 2 pennies. Have they finally let you assign more than two threads per IP port or are you planning on using dozens of different UDP ports, reconfigure everything to pull all this crap in?
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  12. #12
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    Orion,

    You said "Have they finally let you assign more than two threads per IP port or are you planning on using dozens of different UDP ports, reconfigure everything to pull all this crap in?"

    Could you explain what you meant by this please. It has piqued my interest.

    Keith

  13. #13
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    One can use a Moxa MGate MB3180 to do modbus RS485 to IP

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