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  1. #40
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    Jun 2017
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    Phoenix, AZ (Previous: Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon)
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    Whichever one is installed correctly

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Kansas Flatlands
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhenergy View Post
    a chevy and BMW are built and bought on the same day. Chevy maintains perfect maintenance following manu's recommendations to the T. BMW never even changes the oil.

    Why are we blaming the BMW for being a POS?

    A house need a 60k furnace but jim bob joe put a 120 in just in case it gets cold. Why are we blaming Trane/Carrier/Goodman the blower motor lasted a year?

    I bet if we take all the components out of the units, we would find that most of them are using the exact same parts. Same single stage boards, same single stage valves, same psc motors, same contactors.

    I think a properly designed and properly installed unit will easily last 20 years for a/c and 30+ for a gas furnace. Yes minor parts will need replaced but a well designed and installed system should be able to perform 20-30 years without a HX or comp issue. In my opinion.
    I agree with you 99%. Our only difference is equipment producers now do not want it to last too long. They buy parts from producers who make parts and give them away for free for 10 years (parts warranty). This leaves a giant loss as a line item in their company balance sheet. They see it corrected with a box with new "equipment" being sold.
    As this thread agrees, It's not the name on the unit, but the name on the truck and the guys shirt that matters most. However I think we can also agree the producers are taking some of that control out of our hands by building equipment to a design model with a shorter lifespan. If you've been around awhile you can see it. However, the client base does not know it and "WE" are afraid to be honest and tell them. Who wants to go to a sales call and say "This will do ya OK for 9-10 years". If they were aware of that they would never pay a dime extra for the name.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    22,094
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldscroll View Post
    I agree with you 99%. Our only difference is equipment producers now do not want it to last too long. They buy parts from producers who make parts and give them away for free for 10 years (parts warranty). This leaves a giant loss as a line item in their company balance sheet. They see it corrected with a box with new "equipment" being sold.
    As this thread agrees, It's not the name on the unit, but the name on the truck and the guys shirt that matters most. However I think we can also agree the producers are taking some of that control out of our hands by building equipment to a design model with a shorter lifespan. If you've been around awhile you can see it. However, the client base does not know it and "WE" are afraid to be honest and tell them. Who wants to go to a sales call and say "This will do ya OK for 9-10 years". If they were aware of that they would never pay a dime extra for the name.
    Is it the builders getting cheap
    Government regulations mandated
    Or consumers attitudes
    ? ? ?

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dayton Oh
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    1,663
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Is it the builders getting cheap
    Government regulations mandated
    Or consumers attitudes
    ? ? ?
    Or a combination of all three plus the Amazon effect?

    Corporations answer to shareholders who demand to make a profit on their shares. They are always looking for ways to up the earnings.
    On that same note, if you sell a furnace that last 30 years, that is one furnace every 30 years, versus one that lasts ten. We can all do that math.
    In order to get higher efficiency, the walls of the metal have to be thinner to allow better/more heat transfer.

    We can go on and on about what the root cause is for shorter life. But I still stand firm by my statement regarding todays cheaper units. Because they are more cheaply built, their tolerance for abuse is less. Which is why the systems must be designed and installed correctly for each structure.

    I mean i know guys to this day that pull vacuums by the sound change of the pump. Sure 30 years ago when a compressor was built with 1" steel that would work.

    And I forgot to mention the unit that is properly maintained. I dont care what unit it is, you dont change the filter that hunk of metal is going to heck and a hand bag no matter the name.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Hamersville, Ohio
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    6,354
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I don't know, this seems like asking would you rather drop a 8 lb hammer on your toe (no steel toe) or smash your finger in the break.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlerberts-Protege View Post
    I have 10 friends that drink and drive every day. They all drive like shit. All depends who gets caught first. Hvac equipment is like my friends.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhenergy View Post
    a chevy and BMW are built and bought on the same day. Chevy maintains perfect maintenance following manu's recommendations to the T. BMW never even changes the oil.

    Why are we blaming the BMW for being a POS?

    A house need a 60k furnace but jim bob joe put a 120 in just in case it gets cold. Why are we blaming Trane/Carrier/Goodman the blower motor lasted a year?

    I bet if we take all the components out of the units, we would find that most of them are using the exact same parts. Same single stage boards, same single stage valves, same psc motors, same contactors.

    I think a properly designed and properly installed unit will easily last 20 years for a/c and 30+ for a gas furnace. Yes minor parts will need replaced but a well designed and installed system should be able to perform 20-30 years without a HX or comp issue. In my opinion.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Kansas Flatlands
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    297
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Is it the builders getting cheap
    Government regulations mandated
    Or consumers attitudes
    ? ? ?
    As a kid I grew up helpin Dad do plumbin work. Water heaters would last 20 years with no one doing any maintenance at all. As we all know now you get what, 8?

    HVAC equipment corps. have all just decided to collectively get cheap on the product not price, and sell more often. It will take awhile for us to absorb the idea that we need new stuff about as often as we change cars. That's what were headed for.

    Remember when compressors had 5 years but the rest of the unit 1 yr. Then a company called Goodman came around and said we warranty everything 5 years. All the rest said "they will go broke". Soon everyone went to 5 years, so Goodman said 10. same thing said "they can never stay in business". Now here we are, Goodman leading the way to people to buying equipment online. Trying to build a dealer base of contractors who will put it in for next to nothing. Now I hear "It'll never happen" commin from the mouths of the same people.

    Others in our profession may not agree with me in total, but you are blind if you think things can't change for worse. Parts not lasting as long, stuff getting more technical for those government mandates, makin it harder to fix, fewer people doing this for a living. We're gonna change, but my acceptance of the change has not settled well within me so far.

  9. #48
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    Mar 2015
    Location
    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Well Said, & True Oldscroll.

    Our Society, has become a Materialistic, "Throw it Away, & Buy a New One", ... With very little equipment being made with American Pride" that will will last for many, many,years.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  10. Likes SuperTech2010 liked this post
  11. #49
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    Dec 2012
    Location
    columbus, OH
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    Most of my customers want to fix it:-) it turns out a huge portion of our customer base is planning to sell the house very soon or a commercial rental situation.

    If its older and has no hp/lp safeties i just explain the possible future problems and give the prices both ways. Thats about all one feller can honestly do. If they get into the what would you do conversation. I say I can fix my own ac and drive a 92 vehicle, everyones value systems are different.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #50
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    Mar 2015
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    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    Most of my customers want to fix it:-) it turns out a huge portion of our customer base is planning to sell the house very soon or a commercial rental situation.

    If its older and has no hp/lp safeties i just explain the possible future problems and give the prices both ways. Thats about all one feller can honestly do. If they get into the “what would you do” conversation. I say “I can fix my own ac and drive a 92 vehicle, everyones value systems are different.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Personal "Like Button" >>>
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  13. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Saint Augustine, Florida
    Posts
    52
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    Goodman has barely changed their technology in their base models for many years. Their technology in their upper tier equipment, in my opinion is nominal at best. I am not a ruud dealer personally but i do prefer them over Goodman. A few years ago Ruud under went major changes in their design and manufacturing structures. They use the heaviest steel in all the residential market in their cabinet structures. While some may not consider this important it does assist in longevity issues as vibration is a major factory as a unit ages. Especially in coastal climates. They also re designed the outdoor control panels and refrigerant ports with service in mind. There is ample room to work and clear access to the the suction, liquid and common ports alike. Of course they have a standard 5 year warranty that easily doubles to ten should the new equipment be registered within 60 days of install. It takes a few minutes to register it but a great service for the customers. After all, are not the customers why we do this. Good luck

  14. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldscroll View Post
    I agree with you 99%. Our only difference is equipment producers now do not want it to last too long. They buy parts from producers who make parts and give them away for free for 10 years (parts warranty). This leaves a giant loss as a line item in their company balance sheet. They see it corrected with a box with new "equipment" being sold.
    As this thread agrees, It's not the name on the unit, but the name on the truck and the guys shirt that matters most. However I think we can also agree the producers are taking some of that control out of our hands by building equipment to a design model with a shorter lifespan. If you've been around awhile you can see it. However, the client base does not know it and "WE" are afraid to be honest and tell them. Who wants to go to a sales call and say "This will do ya OK for 9-10 years". If they were aware of that they would never pay a dime extra for the name.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your Gods law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, I wasnt sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

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