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  1. #1
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    #$%^&* it all ta' hell

    Even a cursory glance would show that blue is the cooling wire and the original installer didn't bother with the old dummy Y terminal and just shot it outside and to ground. So how did the installers not know that ol' blue should land on Y at the stat (and not B for blue).

    And why we're asking questions: How did they determine that everything was hunky dory if the control voltage wasn't even making it to the condenser due to the wiring mishap and...and...an improperly stripped and consequently broken wire in the disconnect (and accepted payment and walked away)? And how did the previous service tech write up "low batteries in the thermostat (brand new) and possibly a stuck TXV?

    I can tell you one thing for certain: I had to chase it all down two weeks after it was installed, after 8:00 pm and on call. I keep telling myself I'll make waves by writing up everything that's wrong and making installs come back and fix it - but there's always an innocent homeowner in the way. Off with their freaking heads already!
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    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

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  3. #2
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    Is that line and low voltage in the same disconnect AND conduit?

    Are these your installers?
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  4. #3
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    Urbandale IA. USA
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    It always made me nervous to see DIFFERENT wire bundles at the Tstat and the AH.
    For me that indicated the "Possibility" that they changed wire colors at some splice in a wall or above a drywall ceiling...
    Hope it works out in the end FOR the customer.
    Those who dance, appear insane to those who do not hear the music.
    Those who believe, appear ignorant to those who do not know God.

  5. #4
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    I know why! There's no "B" in yellow.

    This was an installer from your company? That's one of the main reasons I left a company 25 years ago. I was fixing screwed up installations while on call.
    AOP Rules: Rules For Equipment Owners.

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    There = not here. Their = possessive pronoun. They're = they are
    It's = contraction of it is. Its = the possessive form of it
    Too = also. To = expressing motion. Two = 2
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    Questions should end with a question mark "?" Statements end with a period "."

  6. #5
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    Is that line and low voltage in the same disconnect AND conduit?

    Are these your installers?
    Though I recall trade school taught against the two sharing a conduit; I quickly learned in the field that it's commonly done around here and is the very least of my concerns. Probably one of those things I questioned right out of school that was met with quick hostility.

    I forget the reasoning behind it?

    Quote Originally Posted by cehs View Post
    It always made me nervous to see DIFFERENT wire bundles at the Tstat and the AH.
    For me that indicated the "Possibility" that they changed wire colors at some splice in a wall or above a drywall ceiling...
    Hope it works out in the end FOR the customer.
    Oh it's even worse than that...it's the very same white, red, green and blue; the lighting in the shot just makes it hard to see at the furnace location. They just landed it on B for some stupid reason. Ironically - what's the second most common color chosen for the cooling signal next to yellow? Freaking blue! So the theory that they thought the wire color must match the terminal designation goes out the window...messed up as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdean1 View Post
    I know why! There's no "B" in yellow.

    This was an installer from your company? That's one of the main reasons I left a company 25 years ago. I was fixing screwed up installations while on call.
    Yep...my company did this...I could tell you stories. This one was just particularly egregious. However in complete honestly; I get paid handsomely to deal with it. Their incompetence is my gain when you get right down to it.
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

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  8. #6
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    Such words coming from you......I'm impressed
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  9. #7
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    Dec 2007
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    hurtinhvac-

    What is your stance with ductless wiring?
    I ran into an electrician that splices the indoor unit inside the disconnect and combines it with line voltage in one conduit to the outdoor unit.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  10. #8
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    hurtinhvac-

    What is your stance with ductless wiring?
    I ran into an electrician that splices the indoor unit inside the disconnect and combines it with line voltage in one conduit to the outdoor unit.
    Any deviation from manufacture guidelines with ductless is asking for trouble. S1, S2 and S3 should be home runned from the very same outdoor unit designations. And whatever you do - do not land any aux switch or pump on S3, the data line. That and my general hatred of mini splits is my general stance.

    I seem to recall that communicating equipment should not have line and control voltage sharing the same conduit either. Frankly, I wouldn't think to look for it unless I had a communication error. I haven't noticed as much of that lately compared to when communicating systems were first getting popular.

    However none of the above was really the issue here; it was a simple matter of conventional 24 volt control wiring. That and snipping off the last couple/few inches of the end of the stat wires if you used the biggest notch to strip the brown outer casing off the end of the bundle. How many other systems are ticking time bombs because of even one guy not doing this simple two second preventative procedure? Don't look at it and think you didn't nick or weaken the wires...just cut that section off and remove all doubt.

    The heart of the matter here is taking the time to give guidance to the newer install techs who always start outside because the easier, more mundane tasks are there. Set the condenser, help with the line set and get it welded in and on the pump by lunch and then help with the gas lines (if a complete system) and wiring. The more experienced guy does the metal transition inside and wants to be done by two or three o'clock. The last thing he wants to do is waste time supervising.

    The truly messed up part is how they walked away with it not working - that takes a particular deviousness that can only be cured by termination. In all cases like this, the customer is the sort who will not make waves; gullible, not that conscience of things in general, old or what have you. Tells me that the installers gauged their chances of getting away with it in the moment and went for it.

    The only possible circumstance in which the installers get partially redeemed is if the customer monkeyed with the stat wiring because of the break in the control wiring in the disconnect outside. As I found it, the condenser simply could not have come on. And that's the way I ended the write up after I noted what I fixed. "Condenser appears to not have run once since installation unless third party changed control wiring."
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

  11. #9
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    I’ve never seen the low voltage wire brought through the disconnect like that. Always come outside with the ref pipes in my location.

    And you are right about terminating installers that leave without seeing thing running. Good grief, we all make mistakes, but don’t leave wo seeing it run...

  12. #10
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    Its always late in the evening, i had a thermostat wired with 2-2wires white and red. Guess what happens when you swap the r and the y? No one should ever know this but i do... it works in cooling but that is all.


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