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  1. #1
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    Backing up and Restoring SPYDERS

    I have some backup questions using spyders. I'm trying to figure out how to make sure I have up to date app files in the job database.

    On some of the early projects I did with Spyders, the spyders were programmed from a laptop, not from the on site workbench and jace. Therefore, I don't always have a good copy of the app (wiresheet logic) in the job database, and it may be hard to find these in the future.

    I do have a library backup of most of the controllers. Can I copy a file from the library into the station database, and now have a good download file for the app?

    Any other tips for backing up and restoring spyders?

  2. #2
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    Once the Spyders are downloaded from a station running on a laptop, and that station is then transfered to a JACE via the commissioning wizard, the spyder bog files are stored in the JACE in a separate folder within the station named virtualXL10.

    Changes to setpoints, or anything saved in an nci is not automatically saved to the database. You have to perform a "sync from device to wire sheet" to save those values in the database. Otherwise a future download will overwrite those values.

    If the logic in the spyder has been modified by a different station, you won't be able to upload the changes as the databases will be out of sync.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Thread Starter
    thanks digo,
    Yes, the case I'm trying to deal with (BACnet spyders BTW) is spyders loaded from a laptop but nothing transferred to a jace. Then these spyder apps were usually saved to a spyder library.

    So, how to get the app from the spyder library into the jace database. I just did some testing where, in engineering mode, I deleted the generic app from the tree under "control program" and copied the app saved in the library to the same location. It appears to work.

    Any thoughts about that??

  4. #4
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    Pretty sure that will mark the controller as requiring a download, meaning you won't be able to upload any parameters that may have been changed since the last download.

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  6. #5
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    Thread Starter
    you are correct. Is that the best I'm going to do in this case?

  7. #6
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    Yup, without the original station used to download the controllers that's the best you can do.

    Not ideal, because who's to say the app in the library is correct, as far as terminal assignments go, etc. Gotta field verify, basically a re-do of point to point checkout.

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  8. #7
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    Can do a learn logic and back it up just incase your old backups are very different. Unfortunately with learn logic it doesn’t work if you’re using sylk IO and it also strips out all your program block names and places them all on top each other. Better than re-uploading an old and finding out that there were major changes done and now don’t know what they were and have no way knowing.


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  9. #8
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    Thread Starter
    OK, thanks both. I never used the learn logic because of those issues but it sounds like it will allow me to save a working version, that will be useful.
    I was happy to see when I passed in the app from the library using the spyder tool/engineering mode that it brought with it all the terminal assignments, etc.

    Starting to learn a few of the finer parts of the spyders, working pretty well for me, I just need to keep good backups!

    I buy the vykon spyders through a distributer. I don't have access to the Honeywell support site. Is there much spyder knowledge on that site, or anywhere else in particular?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlPuffer View Post
    I buy the vykon spyders through a distributer. I don't have access to the Honeywell support site. Is there much spyder knowledge on that site, or anywhere else in particular?
    My latest project is to implement a trim and respond scheme on a site that is distech VAVs and Spyder AHUs. It took about an hour to find a way to intrract with the AHUs - to download the spyder tools and a Honeywell workbench. But I have 0 training.

    I also have no access to the Honeywell support site. Does anyone have any training materials or help docs to share?

    Maybe a bump will help us both out, CtrlPuffer.

    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  11. #10
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    Just curious about implementing the "Trim & Response" strategy (where you trim the static prs. setpt when all the boxes are satisfied and increase the setpoint by a xx value when one or more boxes issues a request for more air). How do you deal with Rogue zones? - zones where you just can't meet the airflow/temp. requirement. One would be isolate them from the strategy (requires discovery labor); two would be to give the operator the ability to screen out the 'dead beat' boxes (eg, boxes that never want to close) which removes them from the strategy (I think this is a requirement in the ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Std - can't find it...it's somewhere).

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tridiumtech View Post
    Just curious about implementing the "Trim & Response" strategy (where you trim the static prs. setpt when all the boxes are satisfied and increase the setpoint by a xx value when one or more boxes issues a request for more air). How do you deal with Rogue zones? - zones where you just can't meet the airflow/temp. requirement. One would be isolate them from the strategy (requires discovery labor); two would be to give the operator the ability to screen out the 'dead beat' boxes (eg, boxes that never want to close) which removes them from the strategy (I think this is a requirement in the ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Std - can't find it...it's somewhere).
    I’d make a Boolean point to be matched up with a check box on the graphics, from the Boolean go to a select. InB on the select you have your damper pos or air request, and leave inA as null. From there go to a numeric writable with a naming format like AHU1_VAV1_DmpPos which makes the bql query easier for the Vykon pro minmaxavg block, when they’re null the value is out of the limits so that zone is not used for your calculation.


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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tridiumtech View Post
    two would be to give the operator the ability to screen out the 'dead beat' boxes (eg, boxes that never want to close) which removes them from the strategy (I think this is a requirement in the ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Std - can't find it...it's somewhere).
    I use that. We have an AV that tells my algorithm how many zones are required to ask for heat (or cooling, or more aur, or hotter water, etc.) Before the logic responds. The operator can set it. So he can see how many dead beat zones there are and set his stuff accordingly.

    I like bolt950rider's suggestion though. A little less indiscriminate. There is no guarantee that the 4 deadbeat zones just happen to be the ones calling at any given time...

    Now, any Honeywell info out there?
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

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