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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    You can argue it all you want. what you did is wrong and you posted it in a picture. the coil extends past the drains. that area is well beyond the opening in the furnace and it hangs off the edge. i'd bet that section frosts and freezes.

    you cant size a system counting registers and feeling air flow. Ratings dont mean diddly when it comes to reality. you habve no data according to your posts. you're guessing and patting yourself on the back.

    please, dont assume what i think or dont think. Even my hack jobs dont meet this level of "stunodicy". yes, I made that up. I hope Timebuilder forgives me.
    I've been doing it for 33 years. I know I need air flow. In an existing house you are limited to the duct size. You're not going to rebuild the entire house. This house you'd have to cut every single all open not going to happen. The airflow was so weak that I knew right then and there that this thing would never cool that house with that bore size. You don't even know how that coil fits on there. The center of that coil is well inside the furnace. If you took the coil out and look at the bottom of it you would see that the opening is much smaller than that opening in the furnace. So not one bit of that coil is not getting air flow you're completely wrong. You can do your load calculations go ahead. You'll come up with three and a half tons maybe 3. I always go a little bit big in here in Washington state humidity is a little bit of an issue but not that much. You're not going to come up with two tons and I could tell you right now with that lousy air flow in that house if you would have put two tons in there you would never cool that home off. When I go to somebody's house I turn on the fan and I see how the airflow is. Another house that I did it was 2000 square feet had a 3-ton blower furnace in it. I turned on the fan I was put on high speed airflow was very good I knew I didn't have to worry about up sizing it for some Cooling. I still put a 4-ton blower in it with a 3-ton heat pump and played with the airflow. There is a lot of flex in the crawl space and a couple rooms didn't get the best airflow and I was able to overcome some of that with a little more air. Not much guesswork just a lot of experience. I've seen it too many times undersized stuff

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    Not at all you're completely wrong. The offset is 2 in which I did not have with the return duct. The unit has a very good temperature drop has never Frozen up. I'm sure you think you have to have exactly 1400 CFM for 3 & a half ton machine. That's not always the case I've done installs where I've actually slowed the fan down some and sped it up some. That machine there I have 4 tons of air going through it. And when I counted up all the registers and saw how that place was installed and saw how weak the airflow was from the existing 2-ton system they had no AC on it but it was rated up to 800 CFM I knew it I could push plenty of air in there it was a 2000 square foot house

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    "Counting Registers"?????

    Please direct as to which Manual that is found in Sir.

    Did You actually measure the SA & RA Duct work?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    How much of that coil, overhanging the furnace is in "Dead Air" thekux?

    And why did you not "Hard Pipe" the Gas-line? ... Matter of Fact, is that Gas Line Sized sufficiently for the Water Heater & the furnace?

    Does that Evaporator Coil require a "Trap", & where is your "Clean-out" for the Condensate line?

    You Also might want to check & Make Sure that you have a Sufficient amount of the Crimped pipe inserted in that B-vent.

    And where is Your Combustion Air for the Furnace & DHW?

    As far as Your Outdoor Unit, ... I'm not sure about Your "LocalAuthority", but here, We are required to properly mount the Conduit & "Seal-tite".

    The Condenser, is to be moved away from any wall far enough, so as to easily permit Service (24"), & for the Unit to properly Draw Air
    I don't know where you're from but here on the West Coast you cannot hard pipe the entire furnace. It's completely by code you must have a flex connector it is for seismic. The actual Center of that coil that the air goes into isn't that big as a whole coil it's not nearly as big as the whole opening every single bit of that coil is getting air flow

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  5. #17
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    Go ahead and get your manual J out you got 2000 square foot with about probably a medium rfactor and you'll see that it's probably about 3 tons. Maybe three and a half and I'd rather be a little over. Close the house great it's been running no problems for about 3 or 4 years now

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  6. #18
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    And you're still limited by the existing ductwork. What's nice about having existing system that runs with a blower cuz I can see how the airflow is. I know when you can barely feel the air coming out of the Outlets it's not going to cool with a damn been there done that too many times

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  7. #19
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    When you have are being pushed through a coil you don't need to have a P-trap only when it's being pulled through

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  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    The coil is 21 in wide the furnace is 17. I didn't want to put a bigger BTU furnace in there then was already in there. So it's naturally offset by 2in you move it over completely on one side it doesn't make a bit of difference

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    Do You understand what a "Transition", in relation to Sheet-metal is?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  9. #21
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    Not going to fit didn't have a clearances. And obviously you're incorrect because I never had a freeze up issue with the unit. Because I said about four or five times already the center of the coil where all the air goes through is a lot smaller than that entire coil so your vision of what that coil looks like on the inside is completely incorrect

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  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    When you have are being pushed through a coil you don't need to have a P-trap only when it's being pulled through

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    That Depends upon The Manufacturer & The Governing Authority.

    Provide the Town/ County/ State where this is installed, as well as the Md# & Ser# of the Coil, & we'll See whether it's required or not.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    Not going to fit didn't have a clearances. And obviously you're incorrect because I never had a freeze up issue with the unit. Because I said about four or five times already the center of the coil where all the air goes through is a lot smaller than that entire coil so your vision of what that coil looks like on the inside is completely incorrect

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    Thekux, putting a Cased Coil on the Furnace shows that You had plenty of room to make a transition, from the Outlet of the Furnace to the inlet of the Cased coil, so as to be certain that the coil received all of the available air.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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  14. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    I've been doing it for 33 years. I know I need air flow. In an existing house you are limited to the duct size. You're not going to rebuild the entire house. This house you'd have to cut every single all open not going to happen. The airflow was so weak that I knew right then and there that this thing would never cool that house with that bore size. You don't even know how that coil fits on there. The center of that coil is well inside the furnace. If you took the coil out and look at the bottom of it you would see that the opening is much smaller than that opening in the furnace. So not one bit of that coil is not getting air flow you're completely wrong. You can do your load calculations go ahead. You'll come up with three and a half tons maybe 3. I always go a little bit big in here in Washington state humidity is a little bit of an issue but not that much. You're not going to come up with two tons and I could tell you right now with that lousy air flow in that house if you would have put two tons in there you would never cool that home off. When I go to somebody's house I turn on the fan and I see how the airflow is. Another house that I did it was 2000 square feet had a 3-ton blower furnace in it. I turned on the fan I was put on high speed airflow was very good I knew I didn't have to worry about up sizing it for some Cooling. I still put a 4-ton blower in it with a 3-ton heat pump and played with the airflow. There is a lot of flex in the crawl space and a couple rooms didn't get the best airflow and I was able to overcome some of that with a little more air. Not much guesswork just a lot of experience. I've seen it too many times undersized stuff

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    So you've been doing it wrong for 33 years. You choked off a 17" furnace? Then why isnt the case of the coil a MATCHING size? No OEM I know of sells a 21" case with a 17" coil and 4" of baffle plating.

    You dont need a load calc to determine air flow. If you dont know that, you need a bit of schooling. This isnt rocket science. You dont get lots more air with more speed. You get a higher static pressure and more resistance and more noise with only a little bit of "more air".

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  16. #25
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    No I did not on the top of the coil you'll see the flex connector. That's not a vertical duct it's a horizontal duct. I had on the top of that coil 3in maybe foremost I can't remember. When I took the flex connector I had to make that a flange so I can fit the thing in there. I can only access this furnace from the very front one side was the wall the other side was the water heater. Even though it was in the garage it was a pretty tight job

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  17. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    So you've been doing it wrong for 33 years. You choked off a 17" furnace? Then why isnt the case of the coil a MATCHING size? No OEM I know of sells a 21" case with a 17" coil and 4" of baffle plating.

    You dont need a load calc to determine air flow. If you dont know that, you need a bit of schooling. This isnt rocket science. You dont get lots more air with more speed. You get a higher static pressure and more resistance and more noise with only a little bit of "more air".
    Only if you're pushing more then the ductwork can handle. I'm telling you you can get a 150 CFM through a 6-inch work without having a noise issue. That's the advantage of having a system that's in there already operating. You turn on the fan put it on the high speed and go through the house and see how the airflow is like. Hertz jobs I have a 3 ton AC unit on there and the furnace is up to a 4-ton. I have few jobs I have 4 tons of air going through a 3 ton AC coil. It's pushing air marvelously through the house cooling it down nice if you don't have the airflow you're not going to call your house especially on a really hot day when it's over 95. If you live in Phoenix Arizona I can tell you right now if you don't have at least one CFM per square foot you're probably not going to cool that house down on 110th degree day they even if your r factor is the greatest

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