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Thread: Three-and-a-half ton system with 80% furnace

  1. #21
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    Not going to fit didn't have a clearances. And obviously you're incorrect because I never had a freeze up issue with the unit. Because I said about four or five times already the center of the coil where all the air goes through is a lot smaller than that entire coil so your vision of what that coil looks like on the inside is completely incorrect

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    When you have are being pushed through a coil you don't need to have a P-trap only when it's being pulled through

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    That Depends upon The Manufacturer & The Governing Authority.

    Provide the Town/ County/ State where this is installed, as well as the Md# & Ser# of the Coil, & we'll See whether it's required or not.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    Not going to fit didn't have a clearances. And obviously you're incorrect because I never had a freeze up issue with the unit. Because I said about four or five times already the center of the coil where all the air goes through is a lot smaller than that entire coil so your vision of what that coil looks like on the inside is completely incorrect

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    Thekux, putting a Cased Coil on the Furnace shows that You had plenty of room to make a transition, from the Outlet of the Furnace to the inlet of the Cased coil, so as to be certain that the coil received all of the available air.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    I've been doing it for 33 years. I know I need air flow. In an existing house you are limited to the duct size. You're not going to rebuild the entire house. This house you'd have to cut every single all open not going to happen. The airflow was so weak that I knew right then and there that this thing would never cool that house with that bore size. You don't even know how that coil fits on there. The center of that coil is well inside the furnace. If you took the coil out and look at the bottom of it you would see that the opening is much smaller than that opening in the furnace. So not one bit of that coil is not getting air flow you're completely wrong. You can do your load calculations go ahead. You'll come up with three and a half tons maybe 3. I always go a little bit big in here in Washington state humidity is a little bit of an issue but not that much. You're not going to come up with two tons and I could tell you right now with that lousy air flow in that house if you would have put two tons in there you would never cool that home off. When I go to somebody's house I turn on the fan and I see how the airflow is. Another house that I did it was 2000 square feet had a 3-ton blower furnace in it. I turned on the fan I was put on high speed airflow was very good I knew I didn't have to worry about up sizing it for some Cooling. I still put a 4-ton blower in it with a 3-ton heat pump and played with the airflow. There is a lot of flex in the crawl space and a couple rooms didn't get the best airflow and I was able to overcome some of that with a little more air. Not much guesswork just a lot of experience. I've seen it too many times undersized stuff

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    So you've been doing it wrong for 33 years. You choked off a 17" furnace? Then why isnt the case of the coil a MATCHING size? No OEM I know of sells a 21" case with a 17" coil and 4" of baffle plating.

    You dont need a load calc to determine air flow. If you dont know that, you need a bit of schooling. This isnt rocket science. You dont get lots more air with more speed. You get a higher static pressure and more resistance and more noise with only a little bit of "more air".

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  8. #25
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    No I did not on the top of the coil you'll see the flex connector. That's not a vertical duct it's a horizontal duct. I had on the top of that coil 3in maybe foremost I can't remember. When I took the flex connector I had to make that a flange so I can fit the thing in there. I can only access this furnace from the very front one side was the wall the other side was the water heater. Even though it was in the garage it was a pretty tight job

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    So you've been doing it wrong for 33 years. You choked off a 17" furnace? Then why isnt the case of the coil a MATCHING size? No OEM I know of sells a 21" case with a 17" coil and 4" of baffle plating.

    You dont need a load calc to determine air flow. If you dont know that, you need a bit of schooling. This isnt rocket science. You dont get lots more air with more speed. You get a higher static pressure and more resistance and more noise with only a little bit of "more air".
    Only if you're pushing more then the ductwork can handle. I'm telling you you can get a 150 CFM through a 6-inch work without having a noise issue. That's the advantage of having a system that's in there already operating. You turn on the fan put it on the high speed and go through the house and see how the airflow is like. Hertz jobs I have a 3 ton AC unit on there and the furnace is up to a 4-ton. I have few jobs I have 4 tons of air going through a 3 ton AC coil. It's pushing air marvelously through the house cooling it down nice if you don't have the airflow you're not going to call your house especially on a really hot day when it's over 95. If you live in Phoenix Arizona I can tell you right now if you don't have at least one CFM per square foot you're probably not going to cool that house down on 110th degree day they even if your r factor is the greatest

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  10. #27
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    Are you serious right now? Really? sq ft per cfm? do you stand at the curb with the small, medium, large picture of houses and size AC , too?

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    Are you serious right now? Really? sq ft per cfm? do you stand at the curb with the small, medium, large picture of houses and size AC , too?
    Get your manual J out you can go to a website I can show you also most of the time for AC it breaks down to 1 CFM per square foot. You live in the New York you should be selling like crazy to speed equipment you can size for the big Hot 100 degree heat index. You're probably dealing with houses with not so good r factor lot of old stuff. I've seen people try to size stuff in New York 500 CFM per ton. I've seen it not work a lot back there when I lived on Long Island. The two speed equipment is grayed out on the East Coast because when you have those warm muggy nights you can try the house out out really good on the low-speed and don't need the whole system. Here on the West Coast we don't have that problem.

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  13. #29
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    Check out the cheat sheet

    https://www.alpinehomeair.com/estima...bocwbsqavd_bwe

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekux View Post
    Check out the cheat sheet

    https://www.alpinehomeair.com/estima...bocwbsqavd_bwe

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    Your cheat sheet increases the size of my ac by 50%, and halves the size of the needed heat, for my area.

    I dont need to sell to make a good living. I fix, repair, and adjust systems for best performance. My last system install was last week. The one before that was 2 years ago. Knowing your shit, and knowing how to use tools, means a hell of a lot more than cobbing in new systems.

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  16. #31
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    In Washington state I go around with about 50 BTUs for a furnace per square foot. Are you upstate New York? I lived on Long Island and I seen people size stuff at 500 square foot per ton sometimes I think that's a little short I've seen that not work so good. Being a little tiny bit big doesn't hurt you in AC period being short does and I've seen people in the aop Forum complain about their units not cool in their homes. I've never had that issue I try to get nothing less than 1 ton for 500 square feet. And on the East Coast you have some pretty nasty heat index is to deal with. Maybe do a lot of new construction and you have awesome are factors and that might be higher able to get by with the last but it won't work on a lot of stuff if you're doing 600 square foot per ton of course if there's a bunch of glass and things like that then you got to factor in all that the homes I do don't have those unusual things like lots and lots of glass

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  17. #32
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    Pros dont size sq ft per ton or btu. Capisce?

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  19. #33
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    Get your manual J out I'm telling you I'm close. That three-and-a-half ton AC job that I put on that guy's house with a 17-inch furnace that's offset coil 2 tons could have never cool that place. When I went through the house you can hardly feel the air flow with the two tons of are going it felt almost non-existent. Heating especially here on the West Coast and where it's not freezing like it is where your at is a lot more forgiving than the cooling side when it comes to low air flow

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  20. #34
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    I'm going to tell you about a service call I had. I saw don't ask me how it worked a 3 ton package unit with one 8in Outlet. I couldn't believe the thing didn't go off on high temperature or freeze up the coil but it actually kept running but so much air force was coming out of the outlet would blow the veins on the guys window in this office all over the place. So I could tell you guys you can push a little more CFM through existing ductwork and not have a problem. Unless your return is massively undersized to begin with I do look at that big time and I do my best to measure it up.

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  21. #35
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    Would never pass inspection here in MI. This is what we call a hack installation.

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  23. #36
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    Besides the furnace, I am wondering what the PVC pipe with the concrete cap is/was.
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

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  25. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Would never pass inspection here in MI. This is what we call a hack installation.
    Where's all the write ups?

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  26. #38
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    So are these all side jobs away from your school district job you said you had?
    “I haven’t failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” - Thomas Edison

    “It’s not whether you get knocked down, it’s whether you get up.” - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    That Depends upon The Manufacturer & The Governing Authority.

    Provide the Town/ County/ State where this is installed, as well as the Md# & Ser# of the Coil, & we'll See whether it's required or not.
    Provide the Above Data Kux.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  28. #40
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    No that's a secret you might be a government guy
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    Provide the Above Data Kux.
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