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Thread: Well depth

  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Hmmmm . . . .

    Something doesn't seem right.

    Wouldn't there be a point where the vacuum would not be able to overcome the weight of the water?

    I'm guessing if you had a 300' well, at something like 20 gallons a minute, that vacuum pump would never see liquid water. Just vapor H20.
    That's true to some extent. it's generally 26 feet above the normal water line. In the area Ben and I are in, wells arent usually over 130 feet deep. The water table is high also.

    you're correct on the 300' well example. but it would still allow for an addition of a 26 foot column of water not there before.

    a perfect vacuum would allow for 33.9 feet of additional water. but we dont want that as we dont want too much boiling and we want to prevent pump water ingestion.

    edit - when you have NO water, the addition of 26 feet of standing water is a huge improvement on life

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  3. #15
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    In fact, here's another one for you guys. Had a guy who worked for the water department down the street. We ended up talking about how they get water over a mountain with no pumps; just using siphon action.

    He said if they closed the inlet, after things were up and running, there would be catastrophic failure due to the 'hydraulics' sucking the piping to collapse.

    I asked, really? What's the piping made of? Something that cannot withstand minus 15 psi? I asked, wouldn't the water start to boil due to the vacuum?

    He had answers, but they didn't flush. At least not with what I've learned since I've been in this trade.

    So what say you, could you collapse a municipal water supply piping using the siphon action just by closing the inlet?
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

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  5. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post

    So what say you, could you collapse a municipal water supply piping using the siphon action just by closing the inlet?
    the piping isnt likely, but the water tank on the hill would probably shrivel up and fall over. the siphon would have to be miles long to provide the duration needed to collapse the tank. the water at the uppermost end would start to boil, partially offsetting the vacuum created.

    even the plastic pipe they use for city water wont collapse under that kind of vacuum.

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  7. #17
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    Yeah, I don't plan on pulling a perfect vacuum! Even a few feet will help keep the fissures saturated with water.
    The vacuum collapsing the pipe I can see. With the velocity and drop, I imagine it would pull a vacuum till the water would start to flash... -14psi. Depending on the size, material and condition, I could see it happening.

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  9. #18
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    Many years ago, I heard of this project. I knew of siphon action, had done it myself many times. But something on this scale fascinated me. Essentially, they valved off the pipes at the bottom, then filled the pipe from the top. Opened the valves at the bottom, and the water flowed.

    http://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/c...r-flow-uphill/

    And is still flowing to this day.

    The 'argument' my neighbor and I were having was:
    If you closed the inlet, what would happen?

    I say nothing. He says catastrophic failure.

    The above link is not a simple a pure siphon, but it is still fun to see how an engineer gets his rocks off. There are several pure siphons on this line working for decades and decades. The one I was learning about way back when, everyone was holding their breath, hoping it would work. It did!
    If you were a real tech, you'd solder a relay on that board and call it good to go.

    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

    I use 56% silver on everything except steel.

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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Many years ago, I heard of this project. I knew of siphon action, had done it myself many times. But something on this scale fascinated me. Essentially, they valved off the pipes at the bottom, then filled the pipe from the top. Opened the valves at the bottom, and the water flowed.

    http://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/c...r-flow-uphill/

    And is still flowing to this day.

    The 'argument' my neighbor and I were having was:
    If you closed the inlet, what would happen?

    I say nothing. He says catastrophic failure.
    It's just a giant siphon. The greater/heavier weight of the water on the bottom overcomes the lesser weight of the water on the top. Molecular cohesion pulls the water along. Magic to the general populace. Nothing would happen to the pipes if you closed the inlet. it would be like holding your thumb over a giant straw. Like I said above - if you had a tank that was evacuated... that's a whole different story.

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  13. #20
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    Use the tubing down to the end of the pick up or wherever your low point is in the well. Attach a tee with a pressure gauge and a fitting for air pressure. Introduce air until the pressure gauge stops rising (you will hear bubbling in the well at this point) and then take that pressure and convert to head pressure for your water depth. Easy peasy...

    Town of Virginia City' municipal water is entirely fed with a siphon! Installed in the 1800's I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyD View Post
    Hey guys, figured I'd post this here. What I want to do is monitor my 80' well for my house. As most of us know, 2.3' of head equals 1psi. If I drop down a piece of soft copper (maybe weighted), would I be able to semi-accurately be able to measure depth of water? Down to a few feet is fine, I just want to keep an eye on it during the summer months.
    I usually don't have much more than 60' of water so a 30# gague should be good and give me a decent resolution. I plan on putting a bulk head fitting in the casing and a 90 down. I know my joints need to be sealed well and probably need to remove it once in a while to make sure it's still accurate.
    Am I way out in left field? Those ultrasonic ones are quite pricey!

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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  15. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Madera View Post
    Use the tubing down to the end of the pick up or wherever your low point is in the well. Attach a tee with a pressure gauge and a fitting for air pressure. Introduce air until the pressure gauge stops rising (you will hear bubbling in the well at this point) and then take that pressure and convert to head pressure for your water depth. Easy peasy...

    Town of Virginia City' municipal water is entirely fed with a siphon! Installed in the 1800's I believe.
    I have heard of that too. I was just hoping I could have something to take a quick glance at... without having to carry along my air tank. I could put in a tee with a Schrader valve just in case.

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  17. #22
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    Jaun's solution is as old as the hills and works very well. It is actually called a bubbler. Siphon action will not collapse normal water supply pipes or public water storage tanks. The tanks are vented and any standard ridged pipe will handle the hoop stress of maximum siphon pressure even at sea level.

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  19. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    The tanks are vented
    The discussion was more about purposely creating an unusual situation. There's videos out there of train cars collapsing under vacuum.

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  21. #24
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    A lot of things such as ducts and steam boilers have collapsed under vacuum. A boiler will do it if you bring it down too fast. Fifteen PSI is a lot of pressure for a non-code and non-vented tank but is meaningless on a ridged wall pipe.

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  23. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    A lot of things such as ducts and steam boilers have collapsed under vacuum. A boiler will do it if you bring it down too fast. Fifteen PSI is a lot of pressure for a non-code and non-vented tank but is meaningless on a ridged wall pipe.
    That reminded me of a YouTube video I saw about steam and vacuum. This is a short version of what I saw made by the same channel. Pretty violent!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qodHf-ryy8Q

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  25. #26
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