Side Job Question

[drage93]

I have regular job I am refrigeration tech but I do a lot of side jobs. So this particular job I didn't want to get involved but guy is throwing money at me and doesn't really care if unit runs correctly he just wants it working. So he has two open display Mark Refrigeration 8 foot cases with no model and serial. The only info I have they where used with r-22 med temp. Txv valves on the display cases are Sporlan internal equalizing valve with AA cartridge. So based on that they are 1/2-2/3 ton cases.
So now he has low temp r-404 condensing unit that he wants to use with this. Its a Copeland compressor CF06k6e-pfv-945. So I know its a wrong application but since he doesn't care about any of that, Can I still make this unit work. I was going to change txv valves to A cartridge and run and new power heads and run it with r-404 since compressor is 404. But question is will this compressor have problem running med temp, is it going to work, or running it med temp it will overheat and burn up eventually. I was going to set it up with solenoid and txv valve but costomer d wants to run for 30 min and be off for 30 min. Condensing unit has defrost clock set up and compressor is wired through clock to shut off. So what kind of problems am I looking at with this set up. Like I said I wanted to set it up correctly but customer don't care.

[TechmanTerry]

How would you and your Boss do this job if this was for your "regular" job?? You let the side job customer dictate the "rules of refrigeration" to you because he doesn't care? You sure as hell will find out how much the side job guy cares about refrigeration after he put $$$ in your hand AND the system doesn't work properly??? Maybe the side job guy will care enough then, and call your Boss and complains to him about the lousy side job that you did. You do "lots" of side jobs??

[shellkamp]

I can't access the Emerson website at this moment, so I can't lookup the compressor performance chart, but there's a chance you could make this work OK. You might even be able to just charge it with R22 or 407C and have it happily run with the current TXVs.

Provided that the compressor could be made to work, I don't think I'd let it cycle the way he wants it to, at least not without being a pump down system.

Let's not forget that since we don't know the evaporator capacity for sure, you also can't promise him that it will be able to run 30 minutes of every hour and do its job.

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[icemeister]

TechmanTerry has good advice in post #2, so I agree that it behooves you to be very careful how much you allow this customer to lead you and bend your own standards. Also be aware that doing side jobs seriously places you at high risk of being fired on the spot, a black mark on your work history that can that can affect you for many years to come. So although a wad of cash may look too good to pass up, it may be the best decision you ever made.

That said, take a look at the Marc Refrigeration website and ID what type of case we're talking about here. Perhaps then we can nail down the load and see if the compressor can manage it.

http://www.marcrefrigeration.com/

Also, get the model number of the condensing unit. That will allow us to check to see if the condenser is going to be bale to handle the load at a higher than normal operating condition. If it's a Copeland unit. it's likely an FJAL-B200 or FJAL-B225. The B225 would be better because it has the same CF06 compressor but a larger condenser.

If the case is a service deli or service meat case like this one, then the load is 11,200 Btuh for a 16 ft lineup at a +20°F evaporator temperature.

Here's the I&O Manual for Marc Refrigeration's service deli and meat cases:
https://icemeister.net/backroom/calc...-refrigeration


The compressor operating envelope specs top out at a +10°F evap temp and 120°F SCT where its capacity on R404A is listed at a 12,200 Btuh. So capacity-wise you'd be OK but I suggest adding a CPR valve to limit the compressor suction to its upper limit of +10°F SST.

Here's the performance data sheet for the CF06K6E-PFV:
CF06K6E-PFV-Performance.pdf

[drage93]

TechmanTerry has good advice in post #2, so I agree that it behooves you to be very careful how much you allow this customer to lead you and bend your own standards. Also be aware that doing side jobs seriously places you at high risk of being fired on the spot, a black mark on your work history that can that can affect you for many years to come. So although a wad of cash may look too good to pass up, it may be the best decision you ever made.

That said, take a look at the Marc Refrigeration website and ID what type of case we're talking about here. Perhaps then we can nail down the load and see if the compressor can manage it.

http://www.marcrefrigeration.com/

Also, get the model number of the condensing unit. That will allow us to check to see if the condenser is going to be bale to handle the load at a higher than normal operating condition. If it's a Copeland unit. it's likely an FJAL-B200 or FJAL-B225. The B225 would be better because it has the same CF06 compressor but a larger condenser.

If the case is a service deli or service meat case like this one, then the load is 11,200 Btuh for a 16 ft lineup at a +20°F evaporator temperature.

Here's the I&O Manual for Marc Refrigeration's service deli and meat cases:
https://icemeister.net/backroom/calc...-refrigeration


The compressor operating envelope specs top out at a +10°F evap temp and 120°F SCT where its capacity on R404A is listed at a 12,200 Btuh. So capacity-wise you'd be OK but I suggest adding a CPR valve to limit the compressor suction to its upper limit of +10°F SST.

Here's the performance data sheet for the CF06K6E-PFV:
CF06K6E-PFV-Performance.pdf

I usually don't like doing mickey mouse jobs, but the open cases he has there are open produce merchandiser M#PD-8R he has two of those I guess they can be set up as self contained or remote. I appreciate all the help and inputs from you guys.

[shellkamp]

Yeah that compressor is a genuine low temp compressor, I don't think you'll be able to do what I was thinking and just switch it to R22 or 407C.

Add a CPR like ice said and without a doubt make it a pump down.

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[pecmsg]

As long as your accepting all responsibility and liability convert to R-134A. The compressor will operate at R-404A low temp pressures.

[icemeister]

Thanks for the model number of the cases. The PD series produce is made for either self contained or remote, not both. The model number with the R on the end indicates these are remote cases only. Here's the spec sheet on the PD series cases:

http://www.marcrefrigeration.com/pdf/pd_series.pdf

To size the condensing unit is a challenge and a guessing game. Curiously they show a 1hp unit is required for their self contained 8 ft case whereas the 8 ft remote case specs calls for a 2 hp unit.

That 2 hp requirement for an 8 ft remote is, in my opinion, wrong. I had a customer in Florida with one of these 8 ft produce cases. The condensing unit was a remote 1 hp and it worked perfectly for the nearly 15 years I serviced it. No way that case needs a 2 horse unit.

I believe the unit you have will work for this case. It won't work "well" because we're running at the very top end of its limits, but it will run. I'd still like to know the condensing unit model number though, just be a little more certain about that.

[BBeerme]

I missed where Ice said to add a CPR, but that's what I would do. If I were doing the job.

Yeah that compressor is a genuine low temp compressor, I don't think you'll be able to do what I was thinking and just switch it to R22 or 407C.

Add a CPR like ice said and without a doubt make it a pump down.

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[shellkamp]

As long as your accepting all responsibility and liability convert to R-134A. The compressor will operate at R-404A low temp pressures.

Yeah, but he might end up too small capacity-wise. We don't know what exactly the cases require.

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[pecmsg]

Yeah, but he might end up too small capacity-wise. We don't know what exactly the cases require.

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That's the owners problem.................

He supplied the equipment!

[drage93]

Actually on second look it's a 6ft case, so two 6 ft cases. I guess their spec call for 1 hp condensing unit for 6 ft case. I guess that would make sense since original valves in there where sporlan aa valve. The condensing unit the model # is gone so I only have compressor to work with.

[TechmanTerry]

Which ever way this job goes,base all of YOUR DECISIONS ON PROPER REFRIGERATION RULES. Don't let some Bozo tell you how to do refrigeration.Keep us in the loop.

[BBeerme]

I I'm reminded of Sideshow Bob.

LOL

[James Colver]

You're building a reputation for yourself everyday and regardless if it's a side job or a regular job you need to do it right..... every time.

[drage93]

I will do good job, make a pump down system. Install CPR valve and hope for the best. I told customer if he wants me to the job I am not giving him warranty on anything. Is his equipment with wrong application. I give you guys an update to see what happens. Thanks for the inputs!!!

[fridg]

I will do good job, make a pump down system. Install CPR valve and hope for the best. I told customer if he wants me to the job I am not giving him warranty on anything. Is his equipment with wrong application. I give you guys an update to see what happens. Thanks for the inputs!!!

An EPR in each Case would be a thought.
This way you can control you Pressure / Temperature Relationship directly for each case.