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  1. #1
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    convert geo to air ?

    I have a long time customer. High acid well water is all he has for the geo units. Most often the failures have been heat exchangers failing due to the water. He refuses to treat anything but the domestic use water for acid.

    The crawlspace unit isn't so much a problem but the attic unit has failed twice and flooded the house. No wait; only one was a HX failure - the other was a polybutylene tubing failure.

    The present attic unit is 15 years old and fortunately the latest HX failure was in - flooded the compressor and not the house.

    I would prefer to replace with air cooled and reduce the customer's risk.

    His question is: what air cooled HP's efficiency rating would most closely duplicate the efficiency / cost of operation of the geo system?

    So that is my question too. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  2. #2
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    Oct 2014
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    The only thing that comes remotely close to open loop geo in terms of efficiency is ductless inverter. Unless you want to hook his geo units up to a cooling tower instead, but then you still need water treatment.

  3. #3
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    Thread Starter
    Sure; but the point is to get the water out of his second floor attic. The last time it leaked the repair cost was over $100K <g>

    PHM
    ------



    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    The only thing that comes remotely close to open loop geo in terms of efficiency is ductless inverter. Unless you want to hook his geo units up to a cooling tower instead, but then you still need water treatment.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  4. #4
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    Another option would be to use a water-cooled condensing unit in the basement or crawlspace, and pipe the refrigerant up to the attic, if he wants to keep the geothermal aspect. Like so: https://www.carrier.com/residential/...heat-pumps/gz/ or perhaps https://www.bosch-climate.us/product...del-split.html
    It seems odd that he wouldn't want to treat the water, and instead spend big bucks on HX replacements every several years.

  5. #5
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks! That is an excellent idea!

    And, except for the added cost of a lineset, the equipment costs are about the same.

    PHM
    -------




    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    Another option would be to use a water-cooled condensing unit in the basement or crawlspace, and pipe the refrigerant up to the attic, if he wants to keep the geothermal aspect. Like so: https://www.carrier.com/residential/...heat-pumps/gz/ or perhaps https://www.bosch-climate.us/product...del-split.html
    It seems odd that he wouldn't want to treat the water, and instead spend big bucks on HX replacements every several years.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Can you hook up a Heat Pump condensing unit outside? Forget SEER ratings they wont apply.

  7. #7
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    Have you thought about adding a small flat plate heat exchanger. The heat exchangers are typically made out of 316 stainless steel so the acidic water should not affect the integrity of the heat exchanger. Then all you would need is a small Taco or B&G circulating pump for the secondary side. Just a thought...

  8. #8
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    I have to consider that this entire job will be done with me working though someone else's hands. <g> My associate is not me - and apparently does not want to become me.

    I love your idea and would happily use it - but anything out of the ordinary makes my associate get 'deer in the headlights' look on his face. Hell; just the idea of replacing a geo unit has him pretty freaked out. <g>

    And besides: don't the geo makers generally use what used to be called 'marine grade' heat exchangers these days?

    PHM
    -------




    Quote Originally Posted by DewMac View Post
    Have you thought about adding a small flat plate heat exchanger. The heat exchangers are typically made out of 316 stainless steel so the acidic water should not affect the integrity of the heat exchanger. Then all you would need is a small Taco or B&G circulating pump for the secondary side. Just a thought...
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
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    May 2018
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    Now you got me curious about marine grade HEX. You mentioned that the HEX failed, what was the HEX made of and was that marine grade ?

  10. #10
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    Oct 2014
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    I assume "marine grade" might be titanium, or maybe cupro-nickel, both of which would usually be an upgrade option over the factory stainless or copper options. Some might include it by default, don't know for sure though.

  11. #11
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    considering the amount of possible future damage, closed loop, if he wants high efficiency!
    Got to spend some money somewhere !!!
    remember, with electronics; when its brown,its cooking and when its black, its done!!!

  12. #12
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    Mar 2013
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    Port St. Lucie, Fl
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    The guy who just paid 100k in water damage is worried about the efficiency disparity between geothermal and air source heat pumps? :grin:

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  13. Likes rjk_cmh liked this post
  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    The guy who just paid 100k in water damage is worried about the efficiency disparity between geothermal and air source heat pumps? :grin:

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    Correction, the guy who's insurance most likely paid for the damage...

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