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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    This reminds me of a Dr's house I did a numbers of years ago.

    They had 2 systems in the house. The one for the north end would not keep that end of the house warm (10 or more below set point even with portable electric heaters running) and would not keep the temp even on cooling. I went through did the load calc, figured duct sizing, price aheat pump with zone system which they bought. We got done and they were happy for a month. That end of the house was at set point, the whole end was comfortable and they didn't need the portables. Then they got their first bill which was higher. They couldn't understand how a more efficient system could cost more to operate, they didn't think the whole 10+degrees warmer would cost more. Then they were upset because they would turn the temperature down overnight and when he would turn the temperature up in the morning it was not instantly 10 degrees warmer. The thermostat was set at 70 so it should be 70 by the time you sit your butt in the chair after you turn it up. I'm thinking how can someone smart enough to be a Dr. not be able to understand this. Telling them they should not be turning down a heat pump 10 degrees went over like a lead balloon also.
    My wife worked with medical doctors. Some she refered to as "educated Idiots". Most were fine though.
    The thing about our brains is some of us are smart in a small area like a math wiz.
    Other are generalists. A generalist might not be top of the class but they function well in many ares.
    A generalist will survive much better because they are adaptable. A generalist will most likely do well as an hvac tech. The ability to work in many areas and not get frustrated. A frustrated tech is often a person in the wrong job.
    I should have played the g'tar on the MTV. MK

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  2. #28
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    Think or 75 indoor design temp like a speed limit sign. Its more a suggestion, then a requirement. LOL

    Around here, I don't think anyone uses 75 for a summer indoor temp.
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  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Think or 75 indoor design temp like a speed limit sign. Its more a suggestion, then a requirement. LOL

    Around here, I don't think anyone uses 75 for a summer indoor temp.


    Do you think that people wanting a space colder than 75 is because of always being in a space that temp is a habit? Like in Phoenix where people try to beat the heat.
    Here, most days humidity isn't a consideration except in the monsoons.
    I actually measured the RH one summer day and it was below 1%. I measured it because the weather report said RH was something like 6%. But that was unusual.
    A 75degF and 45%rh is a nice summer day. I know a problem with a design for below 75 is many days the equipment wont run long enough to dry the space out. Then occupants are chilly with low set point and high RH.
    Probably the advice Teddy Bear gives about adding a De-humidifier makes sense and saves operating the equipment less.
    I should have played the g'tar on the MTV. MK

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Do you think that people wanting a space colder than 75 is because of always being in a space that temp is a habit? Like in Phoenix where people try to beat the heat.
    Here, most days humidity isn't a consideration except in the monsoons.
    I actually measured the RH one summer day and it was below 1%. I measured it because the weather report said RH was something like 6%. But that was unusual.
    A 75degF and 45%rh is a nice summer day. I know a problem with a design for below 75 is many days the equipment wont run long enough to dry the space out. Then occupants are chilly with low set point and high RH.
    Probably the advice Teddy Bear gives about adding a De-humidifier makes sense and saves operating the equipment less.
    Whether your operating an A/C or a dehumidifier, your operating equipment. So half a dozen one way, 6 the other.

    I keep my A/C set below 75, often at 72. My RH stays low at 72. So it feels comfortable. When I go to bed, I leave it rise to 74. Once a sleep, 74 is okay. But I like to be cool. And 75 at 50% just isn't that cool to me. So I guess at least some other people are the same way.
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  5. #31
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    I keep my AC at 70-72. My Dad keeps his at 68. We're in a humid heat wave right now. My AC is running 24/7. ODB is 94 with 34% RH. Indoor is maintaining/slowly dropping 76 with 41% RH. Im uncomfortable at 76, but it's a function of a poor apartment duct system and 5 reef aquariums.

  6. #32
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    I'd love to see this thread in ARP,

    who wants to tell you what temp you should feel comfortable at and who thinks it entirely up to the customer, and see where the right wingers and left wingers land....


    hehehe.......
    my boss thinks its possible to repeal the laws of physics

  7. #33
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    A customer is rarely aware of what all those numbers mean. I've heard them say "72 is where I should put it,right?"
    When I said the customer is not always right I kept that in mind when I educated them. Remember, you're the expert.
    Acclimation is a process where a customer learns where they are comfy. A system too big is expensive to buy and run. They can be cold on mild days. Multi-speed systems might be a good choice for homes. I haven't done homes since the early 90's so I'm not up to speed with the newer stuff. I do know a dry space is a happy space as far as human comfort goes. In humid climates I would put a emphasis on removing RH and the cooling will follow. Shooting for <50% is easier with adding a De-humidifier but I don't know what that would add to an install.
    Maybe it's like a painter once told me "They haven't made good paint since they took the lead out!" Just give me a jug of R12 or R22 and I'm happy.
    I should have played the g'tar on the MTV. MK

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ch4man View Post
    I'd love to see this thread in ARP,

    who wants to tell you what temp you should feel comfortable at and who thinks it entirely up to the customer, and see where the right wingers and left wingers land....


    hehehe.......
    That is why I am withholding my comments. They would rightfully (no pun intended) belong in ARP.
    It's an upside down world we live in.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    A customer is rarely aware of what all those numbers mean. I've heard them say "72 is where I should put it,right?"
    When I said the customer is not always right I kept that in mind when I educated them. Remember, you're the expert.
    Acclimation is a process where a customer learns where they are comfy. A system too big is expensive to buy and run. They can be cold on mild days. Multi-speed systems might be a good choice for homes. I haven't done homes since the early 90's so I'm not up to speed with the newer stuff. I do know a dry space is a happy space as far as human comfort goes. In humid climates I would put a emphasis on removing RH and the cooling will follow. Shooting for <50% is easier with adding a De-humidifier but I don't know what that would add to an install.
    Maybe it's like a painter once told me "They haven't made good paint since they took the lead out!" Just give me a jug of R12 or R22 and I'm happy.

    I tell my customers "I cant tell you where you're comfortable." Most "get it" at that point. Though, some still want to argue about the numbers so I tell them. "Fine, for best performance you need to set it on 82 for AC and 66 for heat."

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhenergy View Post
    More specifically, design conditions. ACCA has us design our a/c's for 75* and 50% humidity. But what I would like to know is, how many of us go into homes, and the a/c is actually set at 75? Most people in my area, for whatever reason,have their units set between 70 and 72. When my wife is not looking i move ours to 73 but then she figures it out and moves it back to 71.

    Now when I do my designs, i still do the 75*, unless someone likes it really cold then I adjust, but how was it determined that 75 is optimal?

    Or is it just my region, because of humidity? In the deserts of Arizona, is 75 pretty common?

    I have just been thinking on this the last few days as I go in and out of peoples houses and see that everyone has there units set below 75.

    Heat I get, 68 is understandable. Most people in my area dont even set to 68, many I find are below that. (expect for them old people, had one lady had her unit set to 88* and still had blankets on.)
    Aim for 70 anyway so they can't whine later.
    Anytime the system isn't running it is oversized ...which means the system is oversized almost all the time anyway.
    Days will come when they are doing laundry which pushes out air...which pulls in outside air from every small entry in the home..people will be in the bathrooms when the exhaust fans running at the same time...Mom will be cooking....all the lights will be on..blinds up and people running in and out of the door every 30 seconds...six guests over ...some teen..with a window open blowing his Marlboro smoke out the window in the bedroom.
    You cant tell them it is their fault...especially when it is 82 degrees inside...they don't call to hear excuses....they want to have great cooling for those thousands of dollars they spent.

    Cheers


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  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Think or 75 indoor design temp like a speed limit sign. Its more a suggestion, then a requirement. LOL

    Around here, I don't think anyone uses 75 for a summer indoor temp.
    One may find nearly all adhere to 75 for FBC EC
    and almost no one adheres to 75 per FL D.O.T.

    75'F SUMMER MINIMUM = FL STATE LAW

    F.B.C. Section EC

    SECTION R 302 DESIGN CONDITIONS
    R 302.1 Interior design conditions.

    The interior design temperatures used for heating and cooling load calculations shall be a maximum of 72F (22C) for heating
    and minimum of 75F (24C) for cooling.


    https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/doc...l-requirements
    Designer Dan
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  12. #38
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    LOL. Thats hilarious because on the west side of Chicago We got customers houses and this equipment set for 85. But those same customers will sit there air conditioning units for 65 in the summer months. Dont make any sense whatsoever

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by heating_chicago View Post
    LOL. That’s hilarious because on the west side of Chicago We got customers houses and this equipment set for 85. But those same customers will sit there air conditioning units for 65 in the summer months. Don’t make any sense whatsoever
    I did a bunch of installs in the same area in the 70's. I don't remember telling the HO's where to set the t'stat. I figured they would figure it out. I did my little speel about what the switches were for, keep the filter clean.
    Energy wasn't a huge issue yet although when I built a house there it was for me.
    When I left the area, builders were still building homes the same way they always did with little concern for energy.
    I should have played the g'tar on the MTV. MK

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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