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  1. #27
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    David DB...

    I do not need to know about all the counterfeits...
    All I need to know is the REAL one... GOD!

    My belief: When the Bible says all Scripture is God inspired'... for me that means when I read it and ask God to show me what HE wants me to see... HE does! And I learn from that inner voice that I KNOW is God!
    Remember when Jesus said: 'The sheep know the shepherds voice' and 'MY sheep know MY voice'...
    I truly believe that is a reference to a believer that has sought God enough to find the 2 way relationship I keep talking about. It is not an intellectual thing... rather a faith/knowing thing. One has to want it enough to seek God... and only when one seeks God, will God reveal Himself to that person and they find that relationship.
    Now there was a time when I used to strive to know 'about' God... I thought I knew God... but in reality all I had done was learn about God. At a point... I realized this:

    Say you were doing a graduate degree in political science (if that degree still exists)...
    And you decided to write a graduate level thesis (LONG paper) on George Bush Jr (Shrub)...
    You could do endless research on GW Jr...
    OR
    You could make arrangements to spend the weekend with him and interview him.

    Now lets look at this:
    Sure, doing the research is important to know the historical facts and background...
    YET
    Would a paper written based on the research alone be a better and more thorough paper...
    OR
    Would a paper written based on BOTH the research AND the all weekend interview (lets assume GW was being 100% honest with you when answering any and all questions)?
    Obviously... the paper written with the research AND the interview would be a much more thorough accounting of GW.

    IMO it is the same with God!
    One can learn a lot ABOUT God...
    But until one has developed a relationship WITH God...
    One does not KNOW God!

    I submit that all the research in the world... does not hold a single candle-light...
    To a relationship with Him... which would be brighter than the sunshine on a cloudless Spring day!

    Yeah, God is that big!

    Thoughts???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  2. #28
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    Ga-

    "I do not need to know about all the counterfeits...All I need to know is the REAL one... GOD!"

    I am Speaking of YEHOVAH ELOHIM YISRAEL, or, as you say "The Real one GOD", as far as the "Counterfeits"? Brother, it is upon them, & many more,that the "Foundation of Christianity" is built.

    "the Bible says all Scripture is God inspired', .... Ga-, Paul stated something similar to that in that in 2 Tim.3:16.

    2Ti_3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice: All scripture,. . .Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with hose Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone: nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles, and he interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.

    "Inspired of God" gives somewhat of a Different meaning than "all Scripture is God inspired"

    But, that is Paul's writing, & this may shock you. I stated before, that I am Wary of Paul, & that I only accept him,when he doesn't contradict, The Messiah, the Apostles,the Prophets, & the Torah. After all, Collectively, they are all about The Way that was established before Paul became the "Christian Rock Star" that he is Today. Now here's what might shock you, .... Using Paul's writings as a defense, is the same as using Th' Bamer's or Hillary's words as their Defense. Just because Th' Bamer stated that "Islam helped build America" doesn't make it True, & Hillary's describing those who were against her as "Deplorables" doesn't make it True, ..... But both were either a President, or close to being a President, so with their having that Power, ... therefore it must be True. But, ... being human, like Paul, what they stated, & what Paul stated, if it Fails verification, .... Then It Is A Lie.

    Furthermore, .... Man, put those "Canonized Scriptures" together. Neither The Messiah, nor any Angelic Being, came down, & handed to any Levite Priest, nor Pope, the Finished Product. In the Talmud, Ezra states that he withheld 70 books cuz' he believed that Man was not worthy, nor ready for them. I of course refuse this, & after having studied Ezra, firmly believe that he was corrupt for many reasons, including being a Major part of the overthrowing of the Aaronic Priesthood, with the Power of Babylon being behind him. By the way, that "Overthrowing" is in Plain Site in the Books of Ezra, Nehemiah, the Maccabees, & it carried over in to The N.T., ----- Again, The Overthrowing of The Aaronic Priesthood is plainly stated in The Canonized Scriptures.

    Joh_10:16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.


    Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.


    Ga-, .... I'm Zealous for hearing The Holy One's Voice. I'm also Zealous for The Truth of His Way. One Problem is, .. I don't "Hear Voices", like many of these "Christians" that claim "Th' Lord told me to tell You, ... Blah, blah, blah", &/or "The Lord told me to have you, ... Blah, blah, blah". Ga-, "If" I listened to every person that claimed that The Lord talked to them, & Instructed them to Do/ Say something, ..... Then I would be Broke cuz' I'd have given vast amounts of Free Work to these People. I also would not consistently Dig in to The Scriptures & History of Man's Religions. Nor would I have Stood up to "Men & Women of Gawd" that were Physically, Mentally, Spiritually & Financially Abusing their "Flock".

    Mal_3:6 “For I, Yahweh, don’t change; therefore you, sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

    I Accept, Uphold, & Cling to that Ga-, ..... No matter what Paul wrote, & especially No Matter what some "Self Serving Individual(s)" that claim that 'The lawd told me...." cries out.
    When it Opposes &/or Seeks to Change, the Very Foundation of The Way, of He who Created All Things, & Has the Power of handing out Eternal Life or Suffering in the Lake of Fire, .....Well, to me, .. The Choice is obviously SIMPLE. I'm going with He who the "Whole Picture" is about.
    I'd be a Brain Dead, Spiritually Void Fool, to all of a sudden, get my Ears Tickled, by some Satanically Inspired Belief promoted by some "Rising Charismatic Spiritual Rock Star" , that proclaims "Hey Ya'll! Here's The Easier & True Way!".

    What Juan posted, is ABSOLUTELY True, & it is, In My Belief, One of the Main Reasons why, only a "Remnant" will enter The Eternal Kingdom of Heaven.

    Mat 7:13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.
    Mat 7:14 How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.


    "Judaism", Catholicism, & "Christianity" have Cast off that "Narrow Gate".

    And Ga-, .... You Keep Falling back to this "until one has developed a relationship WITH God.".

    First off Brother, .... I Believe that I do, & Yet, I Freely Admit that I Am A Sinner. You see, ... Man's Teaching of "Once Saved Always Saved", & "Once in Grace always in Grace", is nothing more than an Abomination of Spiritual Bullcrap.

    When I realize that I have "Sinned" I Repent. But I know, that in Today's World, with Me being in this Body, that I will either be Tempted Again, &/or I will lose Control & Sin. An Example here, ... When a Self Centered, Pompous, Godless, Satanically Inspired, Liberally Minded Individual, Physically would impose their self upon Me, My Better half, Family members, or Friends, ..... "If", I didn't attempt to "Peacefully & Lovingly Negotiate" their Immediate Withdrawal, & perhaps their changing their Evil Way, .... And I instead Immediately gave them a "Shock & Awe" Attitude Adjustment, ..... I would be a "Sinner", if the Individual's actions were not Life threatening.
    I Absolutely am not on the same "Playing Field" as King David, & probably not worthy to walk in his shadow, .... But Ga-, YAHWEH Stated many Times that He Loved David, & that He would be a Prince in the Kingdom of Heaven, ... even though David Sinned, many, many, many times. And Trust Me Sir, after heavily studying The Psalms & Proverbs, as well as Chronicles, & Kings, ..... David was a Major Player in Sinning, ... & Yet He wracked his Body & Spirit in Repenting.

    "But until one has developed a relationship WITH God...One does not KNOW God!"

    In some ways that is True Ga-, ... And in other ways it is Wrong. I Thoroughly enjoy talking to my very Young Grandchildren about the World, & "GOD", cuz' in their Innocence, they seem to, at times, have a very Close relationship with God, & Truth. In other words, they are Untainted by Man's Ways.

    And as far as My Relationship with YAHWEH/ YESHUAH, .... Until You Truly Know me Ga-, & Until You know of All that I've Studied/ Researched/ Sought Out/ Prayed about, .... And, Until You have Physical Knowledge of the Miracles that I have Seen, & Experienced, ....Then just because My Beliefs, Rock th' Boat of "Christianity", & Cause it to leak, ....... Because I do not "Fit" in with "Christianity", nor do I have the Desire to, ..... Doesn't Prove me wrong Ga-.

    It only proves that I Refuse to be "a Crap fed, kept in the Dark, Mushroom like Sheeple", that Speaks Up & proclaims "What th' Hell are You Talking About?", whenever I hear a "Man/ Woman of Gawd" proclaiming something that is not True.

    Like the Fable "The Emperorer's Clothes", ..... If it's "Butt Naked", ... I'm not gonna join in with the crowd, & speak of how fancy the clothes are.

    "I submit that all the research in the world... does not hold a single candle-light...To a relationship with Him..."


    That is Strange, ...... For without Reading & Studying His Word, ....All that You would have to Stand Upon, would be what You were told. In My Belief, ... That's called being a Trusting "Pew Warmer".

    I'll apply this to the Secular World, ...... How could You be a Patriotic, Conservative American, that Stands Up to the Satanically Inspired, Godless, & Treasonous People that are Casting off Our Heritage & Laws, .... Unless You Studied all that was available about America?

    How could You sort out Fake News, from Truthful News, ... Unless You Studied, & Verified everything, until You Found THE TRUTH?
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    " and God said HE inspired that writing", ... Where?

    Ga-, .... Do You remember the Moonies? Or have You ever got in to a Discussion with the Jehovah's Witness? I imagine that Your Eyes Light Up, when You keep repeating Your self.

    What Do You know about Anathisius, & Jerome? What do You know about Their Influence on The Scriptures & The Military Power of Rome that backed them Up? Do You know that many of the "Reformers" were Priests, & that before they started their Own Religions, that they Did Not Intend to leave the Catholic "Church"?

    Do You know that Martin Luther rejected the Book of Revelation, & several more Books until He was pressured by his German Protectors to include them? Do You know that this initial Founder of the Protestants also vehemently called for the Stoning, Stabbing, & Beheading of all "Jews"? Howz about Calvin, of the Calvinists? Do You know that he had people burned at the stake such as Michael Servetus for refusing to accept the Doctrine of the Trinity? I don't believe it either, but , I'll put up a hell of a fight before I get burned at any Stake.

    "St Paul was supposed to be the first major missionary preaching the Gospel of Christ.." Wrong,... Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian Eunuch, & Peter received the Vision of the Unclean Beasts, & Witnessed to Cornellius. Matter of Fact, ... Books accepted by Believers prior to the Time of Constantine's "church" speak of the Apostles hand picked by the Holy One, Witnessing to many a "Gentile".

    Paul's "Questionable Ministry" is Upheld by his "Sidekick Luke" in the Book of Acts. Luke was never an Apostle, & Yet Anathisius & Jerome elevated Luke & Mark to a High Level, & called their "3rd/4th Party Witnesses", Writings Gospels. Then, Paul's Writings, & Lukes actually in several Cases Contradict Each other.

    "So here is the question: Is God big enough... to have different faiths for different people... and they all lead to Him?"

    In All Truth, .... Then all that has been Written about The Way, .... Is a Lie.

    Those Faiths/ People that You listed, Did Not Embrace the Way of The Scriptures, .... They'd picked out what Suited them,, Rejected the Rest, & Filled in the voids with Lies.

    Ga-, ..... Billy Graham rejected The Truth about The House of Yisrael & The House of Yudah, not yet being re-united. Billy Graham also zealously called the Children of Yisrael "Jews", & the Old Testament "Jewish".

    Ga-, ..... Like Politics, .... One will Go To War over their Sects' Belief, & They will proclaim that "God is on their Side!". Like Liberals & Conservatives, they will Absolutely Deny what is PLAINLY Written in the Canonized Scriptures, & even more so the very Scrolls/ Books/ Letters that the Canonizers Rejected, ... That Believers accepted before the Founding of the Catholic Church. Secular History states many times, that Censorship was imposed upon the Catholic Roman Empire, for there were many Books Burned, Seized, & Confiscated.

    You never answered this Question, .... Will "Christian" Homosexuals be Welcomed in to the Kingdom of Heaven? Matter of afact, will "Christians" that Zealously endorsed Abortion be welcomed in to the Kingdom of Heaven?

    And, Again, .... "The Bridge is Out!", & "Christianity, Catholicism, as well as "Judaism" are Ignoring the Warning.
    The zealously part I cannot answer...

    However I believe Scripture is correct: Faith in the work Christ did on the cross (we have discussed the details many times)... is the ticket to Heaven rather than hell. We are born headed for hell... ONLY the choice to accept Christs work on the cross will change that.
    It has nothing to do with works, it is about choosing faith in God's grace... PERIOD.

    You see... if it was about works... then Christ wasted his time dying on the cross (Paul says that in a round about way in Gal 2:21).

    Here is a subtle reality about mankind: The smarter (in a worldly sense) we are, the harder it is to accept it is not about us... it is about God.
    However fear not... because God has enough patience (and power) to wait until even the most stubborn and motivated rebel (or if necessary wear them down with adversity)... comes to the end of themselves and seeks Him!
    God saved me from my own mind... he can save anyone else...

    About St Paul...
    I refer to him as St Paul, rather than Paul the apostle, because it works when talking with folks about Biblical things and Christianity. Most folks understand when I say St Paul... I am talking about Paul the apostle, who was formerly Saul of Tarsus, the guy who was on the fast track to be the Chief priest of the Jewish religious hierarchy.
    Imagine that (in today's terms)... being on the fast track to be POTUS... then having an epiphany experience with God... and throwing the worldly part away, to live as a drifter preaching a fringe faith. There had to be something that reached down to the absolute foundation of Saul/Paul's (St Paul) soul (significant enough to go beyond all the intellectualism or feelings)... to cause a life change like that!

    Most Christians I know... have had a life change of similar magnitude (not many caused them to become missionaries, but most of them did have a significant attitudinal and belief change).
    IMO the ones that just attend church and put on the mask for a few hours each Sunday... I wonder about where they will spend eternity. But, that is between them and God, not my place to get involved, unless God prompts me to.

    For me (because I believe this is where God led me)...
    Being able to communicate with someone in terms they can understand... to spread the Gospel of Christ... is the goal. I really do not care whether the facts I relate are 125% perfect to my standards... what I care about is the other person gets the message that God loved then enough: HE voluntarily sent his only son, and his only son Christ voluntarily died; to pay the price for their sins and set them free from sin.
    If they get the message, make the choice, and have that epiphany experience...
    IMO who cares about the details???
    After all... is it GA who saved them...
    OR... is:
    GOD the one that provided the salvation...
    GOD the one that subtly drew the person to Him...
    GOD the one that caused the epiphany experience!
    So can we glorify God for what HE did... rather than try to make it about our feeble minds and emotions... or even worse; about what we do???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  4. #30
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    All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 2 Tim 3:16; NASB

    All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man’s life and training him in good living. The scriptures are the comprehensive equipment of the man of God and fit him fully for all branches of his work. 2 Tim 3:16,17; Phillips

    Next question is what IS scripture? Paul, I am sure, is talking OT here and not his own writings, but I (and many others) do believe that his writings ARE "God breathed" (which is the meaning of the word inspired) and are useful for correction and guidance in navigating the narrow path that is Salvation..

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  6. #31
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    "It has nothing to do with works, it is about choosing faith in God's grace... PERIOD."

    In your Belief, .... PERIOD.

    That is upholding "Once in Grace Always in Grace", as well as several of Paul's Highly Questionable & Refutable Teachings, that Blatantly Reject the Teachings of Those who came before this "Christian Rock Star".

    You hang on to "Grace" all that You want, ..... I'll continue to Stand Upon what The Scriptures State.

    I'll put it this way Ga-, .... "Grace" only, is gonna get You a Liberal Obama/ Hillary World. You might as well accept All that the DNC Platform stands upon.

    Mat 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its flavor, with what will it be salted? It is then good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.
    Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can’t be hidden.
    Mat 5:15 Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house.
    Mat 5:16 Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.



    Mat 5:17 “Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    Mat 5:18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
    Mat 5:19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Mat_11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    Mat_23:3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.

    Joh 3:17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
    Joh 3:18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
    Joh 3:19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
    Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed.
    Joh 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”


    Joh_7:7 The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil.

    Joh_8:39 They answered him, “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.

    Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day. The night is coming, when no one can work.

    Joh_14:12 Most certainly I tell you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and he will do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father.

    Act_7:22 Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. He was mighty in his words and works.

    Act_10:35 but in every nation he who fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.

    Rom 2:5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God;
    Rom 2:6 who “will pay back to everyone according to their works:”

    Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?
    Jas 2:15 And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food,
    Jas 2:16 and one of you tells them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled;” and yet you didn’t give them the things the body needs, what good is it?
    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself.
    Jas 2:18 Yes, a man will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith.
    Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
    Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?
    Jas 2:21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

    Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I am coming to you swiftly, and will move your lamp stand out of its place, unless you repent.

    Rev_2:19 “I know your works, your love, faith, service, patient endurance, and that your last works are more than the first.

    Rev_3:8 “I know your works (behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one can shut), that you have a little power, and kept my word, and didn’t deny my name.

    Rev_14:13 I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.”

    Rev_20:12 I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books,
    according to their works.


    Contrary to Man's Teachings, .... "Works", or Acting / Living by the Law of LOVE, which is the Ten Commandments Covenant, ..... ONE WILL BE JUDGED AS TO WHETHER THEY WALKED IN HIS WAY, or Not.

    PERIOD

    And, .... believing that Not Living by the First & Second Greatest Commandments, or GOOD WORKS, which is The Ten Commandments Covenant boiled down:

    Mat 22:34 But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, gathered themselves together.
    Mat 22:35 One of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, testing him.
    Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?”
    Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
    Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat 22:39 A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
    Mat 22:40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

    But "Faith" Alone, as well as a Lifestyle that Contradicts The Way, .......... Very well could hurl one off that "Broken Bridge". PERIOD.

    You just might want to Ponder Heavily upon this:

    Mat_7:22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’

    Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Madera View Post
    All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 2 Tim 3:16; NASB

    All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man’s life and training him in good living. The scriptures are the comprehensive equipment of the man of God and fit him fully for all branches of his work. 2 Tim 3:16,17; Phillips

    Next question is what IS scripture? Paul, I am sure, is talking OT here and not his own writings, but I (and many others) do believe that his writings ARE "God breathed" (which is the meaning of the word inspired) and are useful for correction and guidance in navigating the narrow path that is Salvation..
    There you go David DB... you quoted a Scripture I have lots of faith in!

    To answer your question: The Scripture God tells you He wants you to pay attention to.
    And I find even if we confine it to the current English Bible... that varies with each person... thus my suggestion that God is big enough to relate differently with each of His kids.

    Reminds me of a home group I used to attend: I would go there and we would greet each other as: 'Gods favourite kid'... think on that for a bit... what does it mean if you are one of the King of the Universe's kids???

    BTW... just me... I prefer the NASB... simply because I grew up with it and am comfortable with it. I have, probably, 3 of them that are seriously worn with use and markings!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    "It has nothing to do with works, it is about choosing faith in God's grace... PERIOD."

    In your Belief, .... PERIOD.

    That is upholding "Once in Grace Always in Grace", as well as several of Paul's Highly Questionable & Refutable Teachings, that Blatantly Reject the Teachings of Those who came before this "Christian Rock Star".

    You hang on to "Grace" all that You want, ..... I'll continue to Stand Upon what The Scriptures State.

    I'll put it this way Ga-, .... "Grace" only, is gonna get You a Liberal Obama/ Hillary World. You might as well accept All that the DNC Platform stands upon.

    Mat 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its flavor, with what will it be salted? It is then good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.
    Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can’t be hidden.
    Mat 5:15 Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house.
    Mat 5:16 Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.



    Mat 5:17 “Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    Mat 5:18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
    Mat 5:19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Mat_11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    Mat_23:3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.

    Joh 3:17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
    Joh 3:18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
    Joh 3:19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
    Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed.
    Joh 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”


    Joh_7:7 The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil.

    Joh_8:39 They answered him, “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.

    Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day. The night is coming, when no one can work.

    Joh_14:12 Most certainly I tell you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and he will do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father.

    Act_7:22 Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. He was mighty in his words and works.

    Act_10:35 but in every nation he who fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.

    Rom 2:5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God;
    Rom 2:6 who “will pay back to everyone according to their works:”

    Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?
    Jas 2:15 And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food,
    Jas 2:16 and one of you tells them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled;” and yet you didn’t give them the things the body needs, what good is it?
    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself.
    Jas 2:18 Yes, a man will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith.
    Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
    Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?
    Jas 2:21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

    Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I am coming to you swiftly, and will move your lamp stand out of its place, unless you repent.

    Rev_2:19 “I know your works, your love, faith, service, patient endurance, and that your last works are more than the first.

    Rev_3:8 “I know your works (behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one can shut), that you have a little power, and kept my word, and didn’t deny my name.

    Rev_14:13 I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.”

    Rev_20:12 I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books,
    according to their works.


    Contrary to Man's Teachings, .... "Works", or Acting / Living by the Law of LOVE, which is the Ten Commandments Covenant, ..... ONE WILL BE JUDGED AS TO WHETHER THEY WALKED IN HIS WAY, or Not.

    PERIOD

    And, .... believing that Not Living by the First & Second Greatest Commandments, or GOOD WORKS, which is The Ten Commandments Covenant boiled down:

    Mat 22:34 But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, gathered themselves together.
    Mat 22:35 One of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, testing him.
    Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?”
    Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
    Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat 22:39 A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
    Mat 22:40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

    But "Faith" Alone, as well as a Lifestyle that Contradicts The Way, .......... Very well could hurl one off that "Broken Bridge". PERIOD.

    You just might want to Ponder Heavily upon this:

    Mat_7:22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’

    Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’
    The law is the old covenant... Grace is the new covenant....
    And St Paul told us in Romans... that grace does NOT refute the law... rather supports it.
    Lessee if I can remember the wording: '... can we sin that grace may aboud...' St Paul said something like: 'may it never be...' IMO a more accurate translation would be '... hell NO....'
    (See if you can figure that one out... the one about how grace supports and fulfills the law, without asking God's help... grin)

    IMO (based on personal experience and counseling dozens and dozens of folks)... one does not find grace until they seek God and ask to understand it. In a nutshell... nobody is gonna figure it out... it has to be revealed!

    BTW: Do you think you are capable of doing something that God cannot forgive you for???
    (Hint: Scripture says ALL SIN was dealt with on the cross... even the ones you and I are gonna do next year).
    The issue is not us, it is what God did for us... we have to learn to humble ourselves and accept it...
    Which, from experience, was and is not easy to do... (no, do not ask me)...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  9. #34
    Join Date
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    Thread Starter
    GA, scripture does mention one unpardonable sin... Grieving the Holy Spirit... And how do we grieve Him whom we have received and is indwelling us when we are immersed into Christ? (Acts 2:38) By refuting and or ignoring the Work He is to do in us to Sanctify (mature) us as Holy before God and mold us into something able to survive in God's glorious presence.

    You can lose your keys, but you cannot lose your salvation. You have to work at throwing away the Grace that is bestowed upon us at Salvation.. Some do.... THIS grieves the Holy Spirit!

  10. #35
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    So you are saying that when God said someone is saved... and NOTHING can take them away...
    God was not telling the truth???

    I am not gonna accept that...
    That would make God a liar... and that is not possible.

    And since most churches can not handle the grace message... is it any surprise they try to find a way to refute it???
    Almost like a liberal who cannot handle the freedom the founding documents of the USA provide... they want to make laws to control freedom... because they are afraid of it.

    GOD can take care of HIS kids... if one of His kids gets out of line... He is perfectly capable of handling that on his own.
    It amuses me folks think there has to be a man-understood set of rules to deal with God's kids...
    They are GODS KIDS... not man-kinds responsibility...
    When are people gonna let go and let God be GOD???

    THIS... is the difference between folks that think they know about God...
    And folks that have a REAL relationship WITH God!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  11. #36
    Join Date
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    Location
    Hamersville, Ohio
    Posts
    7,281
    Post Likes
    "The law is the old covenant... Grace is the new covenant...." SMH

    You Keep Looping Ga-.

    And, just like debating with Mad, Corny, Hurtin, Davida, & Scoobie over The Constitution, & Prayer, .. You Are Evading the Plainly Written Details of The Scriptures, & You Zealously Keep Upholding The Generational Teachings of Man.

    There is No New Covenant, so to Speak, ..... When it is "Re-newed", ... The only thing that will be "New" is it's location,.... It will go from being Written in Stone (Paper, whatever), to being Written in Our Hearts & Minds. And Judging from Man's Religions Actions, as well as the "Signs" that will be Evident when that Covenant is in Force, Per the Prophetic Scriptures, ..... It Has Not Happened Yet.

    As far as the "Corrupted Understanding" of Paul's Teaching of "Faith Alone",(And that also is Martin Luther's Teaching), ...... I posted more than 3 Witnesses of Scripture in #33, from the Messiah/ Holy One, & Two of Yeshuah's "Hand-picked Apostles", with the Core meaning of all of those Verses, ..... You Must have "Faith" as well as "The Walk", that exhibits the Fruit, of Keeping The Ten Commandments Covenant of LOVE.

    Without that Exhibition of Love, ....The Physical inclusion of the Ten Commandments Covenant of Love in their Life,.....One can talk all day long, about their "Faith", & "Love for the Lord", .... Bu they, Per the Details of The Scriptures, ... Will Not Enter The Kingdom of Heaven.

    And as far as the Purpose of the Messiah dying on the Cross Ga-,? It's Much Deeper than that.

    Per The Scriptures, .... Marriage is a Covenant. The Creator was Married to The Children of Yisrael. He Divorced The House of Yisrael, & quite possibly the House of Yudah (The Jews), & it does hint at that Divorce.

    Unless one Party of a Marriage Dies, .... Per the Scriptures, ... The Other Party can not Re-marry. After A Divorce, If the First Party then "Whores around", or Marries another, then turns & tries to Re-marry the Second Party, ... It is Forbidden. Only Death, will Free One from the Covenant of Marriage, where the Surviving Party can Re-marry.

    If, the Children of Yisrael, were exterminated, being Human, they would no longer exist.

    Yeshuah Died on the cross, ... And Resurrected after 3 Days & 3 Nights in the Grave.

    Yeshuah The Holy One, ... Living by his Own Instructions to His People,.... Is now Free to, & He Will, Per The Scriptures, ... Remarry His People.

    And Per the Prophets, ... The House of Yisrael, & The House of Yudah (The Jews), will at that Time, be Reunited.

    Now, ... As far as that Covenant Ga-? I don't care about what Paul wrote that Contradicts the Messiah, the Apostles, the Prophets, & The Torah.

    I'm Standing upon, & Highly Recommend, that all that "Wanna get to Heaven" put aside their "Sect's Teachings", .... Pick up The Bible, & begin comparing what is taught in The O.T., with what is Taught by The Holy One & His "hand picked Apostles", ... Take Notes, Compare Prophecies, & Teachings on The Commandments, as well as The Last Days, ... It's Eye Opening & Shocking Ga-.

    But, ..... You can also go ahead, & Uphold Paul. Worship him, since You Uphold what he wrote, over what The Messiah Plainly Stated in the New Testament, & of which John & James backed up.

    Paul, ... Died for No One. Paul can not Forgive the Sins of Mankind.

    But over many years, .... Judging from the majority of Conversations/ Debates with many different Sects of "Christianity" (Which is an Oxymoron that defies the plainly Stated "One Way"), ........ "Christianity" should "Cut th' Crap", ...And just start building Monuments to Paul, & Openly Worship him as a "God".

    "Christianity", .... Has Cast off that which is in Plain Sight, in The Scriptures,and chosen a Path of their Own Invention ...... Which is another Reason why Juan's Original Post is Absolutely True.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  12. #37
    Join Date
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    Hamersville, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    So you are saying that when God said someone is saved... and NOTHING can take them away...
    God was not telling the truth???

    I am not gonna accept that...
    That would make God a liar... and that is not possible.

    And since most churches can not handle the grace message... is it any surprise they try to find a way to refute it???
    Almost like a liberal who cannot handle the freedom the founding documents of the USA provide... they want to make laws to control freedom... because they are afraid of it.

    GOD can take care of HIS kids... if one of His kids gets out of line... He is perfectly capable of handling that on his own.
    It amuses me folks think there has to be a man-understood set of rules to deal with God's kids...
    They are GODS KIDS... not man-kinds responsibility...
    When are people gonna let go and let God be GOD???

    THIS... is the difference between folks that think they know about God...
    And folks that have a REAL relationship WITH God!
    -------------------

    Eze 18:20 The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
    Eze 18:21 “But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die.
    Eze 18:22 None of his transgressions that he has committed will be remembered against him. In his righteousness that he has done, he shall live.
    Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?
    Eze 18:24 “But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, should he live? None of his righteous deeds that he has done will be remembered. In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die.

    Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

    Joh_8:11 She said, “No one, Lord.” Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more.”

    Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and I will write it in their heart. I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Jer 31:34 They will no longer each teach his neighbor, and every man teach his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh;’ for they will all know me, from their least to their greatest,” says Yahweh: “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same will be saved.


    Rev 3:11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.
    Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
    Rev 3:13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.

    There are many more Scriptures that Destroy the Teaching of Once in Grace always in Grace.
    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


    "You've got to Stand for Something or You'll fall for anything" (A. Tippin)


    Mat_15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    "The law is the old covenant... Grace is the new covenant...." SMH

    You Keep Looping Ga-.

    And, just like debating with Mad, Corny, Hurtin, Davida, & Scoobie over The Constitution, & Prayer, .. You Are Evading the Plainly Written Details of The Scriptures, & You Zealously Keep Upholding The Generational Teachings of Man.

    There is No New Covenant, so to Speak, ..... When it is "Re-newed", ... The only thing that will be "New" is it's location,.... It will go from being Written in Stone (Paper, whatever), to being Written in Our Hearts & Minds. And Judging from Man's Religions Actions, as well as the "Signs" that will be Evident when that Covenant is in Force, Per the Prophetic Scriptures, ..... It Has Not Happened Yet.

    As far as the "Corrupted Understanding" of Paul's Teaching of "Faith Alone",(And that also is Martin Luther's Teaching), ...... I posted more than 3 Witnesses of Scripture in #33, from the Messiah/ Holy One, & Two of Yeshuah's "Hand-picked Apostles", with the Core meaning of all of those Verses, ..... You Must have "Faith" as well as "The Walk", that exhibits the Fruit, of Keeping The Ten Commandments Covenant of LOVE.

    Without that Exhibition of Love, ....The Physical inclusion of the Ten Commandments Covenant of Love in their Life,.....One can talk all day long, about their "Faith", & "Love for the Lord", .... Bu they, Per the Details of The Scriptures, ... Will Not Enter The Kingdom of Heaven.

    And as far as the Purpose of the Messiah dying on the Cross Ga-,? It's Much Deeper than that.

    Per The Scriptures, .... Marriage is a Covenant. The Creator was Married to The Children of Yisrael. He Divorced The House of Yisrael, & quite possibly the House of Yudah (The Jews), & it does hint at that Divorce.

    Unless one Party of a Marriage Dies, .... Per the Scriptures, ... The Other Party can not Re-marry. After A Divorce, If the First Party then "Whores around", or Marries another, then turns & tries to Re-marry the Second Party, ... It is Forbidden. Only Death, will Free One from the Covenant of Marriage, where the Surviving Party can Re-marry.

    If, the Children of Yisrael, were exterminated, being Human, they would no longer exist.

    Yeshuah Died on the cross, ... And Resurrected after 3 Days & 3 Nights in the Grave.

    Yeshuah The Holy One, ... Living by his Own Instructions to His People,.... Is now Free to, & He Will, Per The Scriptures, ... Remarry His People.

    And Per the Prophets, ... The House of Yisrael, & The House of Yudah (The Jews), will at that Time, be Reunited.

    Now, ... As far as that Covenant Ga-? I don't care about what Paul wrote that Contradicts the Messiah, the Apostles, the Prophets, & The Torah.

    I'm Standing upon, & Highly Recommend, that all that "Wanna get to Heaven" put aside their "Sect's Teachings", .... Pick up The Bible, & begin comparing what is taught in The O.T., with what is Taught by The Holy One & His "hand picked Apostles", ... Take Notes, Compare Prophecies, & Teachings on The Commandments, as well as The Last Days, ... It's Eye Opening & Shocking Ga-.

    But, ..... You can also go ahead, & Uphold Paul. Worship him, since You Uphold what he wrote, over what The Messiah Plainly Stated in the New Testament, & of which John & James backed up.

    Paul, ... Died for No One. Paul can not Forgive the Sins of Mankind.

    But over many years, .... Judging from the majority of Conversations/ Debates with many different Sects of "Christianity" (Which is an Oxymoron that defies the plainly Stated "One Way"), ........ "Christianity" should "Cut th' Crap", ...And just start building Monuments to Paul, & Openly Worship him as a "God".

    "Christianity", .... Has Cast off that which is in Plain Sight, in The Scriptures,and chosen a Path of their Own Invention ...... Which is another Reason why Juan's Original Post is Absolutely True.
    See the short phrase in RED above...

    You and I are gonna have to agree to disagree...
    As that is foundational to what Christ did on the cross.

    Sorry... not gonna accept that.

    I remember a lesson learned decades ago...
    When discussing things concerning God and Scripture: a person who is a master-at-debate... sometimes are more interested in winning the debate... than listening to God!
    And I learned that when given the choice of whether to listen to God or to be praised by mankind for winning a debate... I really could care less about ANYTHING other than what I truly believe God is telling me... (wonder how far the praise of mankind will go towards getting someone through the pearly gates).

    Anyhow... we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    -------------------

    Eze 18:20 The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
    Eze 18:21 “But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die.
    Eze 18:22 None of his transgressions that he has committed will be remembered against him. In his righteousness that he has done, he shall live.
    Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?
    Eze 18:24 “But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, should he live? None of his righteous deeds that he has done will be remembered. In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die.

    Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

    Joh_8:11 She said, “No one, Lord.” Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more.”

    Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and I will write it in their heart. I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Jer 31:34 They will no longer each teach his neighbor, and every man teach his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh;’ for they will all know me, from their least to their greatest,” says Yahweh: “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same will be saved.


    Rev 3:11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.
    Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
    Rev 3:13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.

    There are many more Scriptures that Destroy the Teaching of Once in Grace always in Grace.
    To go through this... we would have to go back and define the foundation of sin and the price of sin...
    And while we are at it... define sin and sins (they are different)... they are actually two different koine greek words in the New Testament.

    And I have calls to run... as well as the monthly visit to the Chiropractor... who keeps my 'earthsuit' straight... grin!

    I will leave folks with this thought to consider as we do our calls today: Does a person's salvation depend on their performance of the law... or does it depend on God's grace?

    Have a great one!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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