Fire my tech not??

[YoungSuper]

My apologies if this post isn't in the exact space it should be. I'm new to this forum, and forums in general.

To give you a little bit of background info-- I am 23yo, and have recently became the maintenance supervisor at an apartment complex in my area. I started out very briefly as the groundskeeper/porter, then promoted to tech not too long after that. Within three months, I have earned my EPA, CPO, and R-410A certifications. Maybe two or three months afterwards, the supervisor at the time left, and I took over.

I am now trying to build a competent maintenance team at this complex, and its proving to be more difficult than I thought it would be. Everyone is either grossly under-qualified, or extremely lazy, or both.

To get to the meat and potatoes-- I don't know if I should fire my current tech or not. Let me break down the situation.

This guy, I'll call him "Joe", is in his mid-fifties, early sixties, and has apparently been doing HVAC for thirty years or more. I have seen his up-to-date EPA certification, but nothing else. Since starting (about a month ago as a temp from a staffing agency), I have had maybe four or five HVAC callbacks from him alone, not to include appliance callbacks which is another story in and of itself.

I have been patient and have thought that he just needed some time to acclimate to this new property and staff, but what happened today is what makes me come to this forum.

Today, he has been working on an evaporator coil replacement. Well, after putting the news coils in place and brazing the lines; he apparently vacuumed the lines for a bit, then starting adding refrigerant (R-421A). When I stopped by to check on him, he said everything was good except there was a small problem that he couldn't figure out.

I went inside the apartment with him, and as I'm checking the registers throughout the unit for temperature; I here the unmistakable sound of a hole popping in the copper lines and refrigerant shooting out of it. Long story short, his brazing job sucked balls, and all of the refrigerant he put into the system got discharged into the apartment. I know some will say that I should have intervened before then, but I guess I was giving a grown man too much credit for knowing what he was doing.

So I asked him if he purged the lines with nitrogen, and he said something along the lines of, "I always bypass the use of nitrogen. I just run a vacuum on it, then fill it up." I was taken aback a little bit, tbh. By telling me that, it also tells me that he didn't check for leaks in the line or anything at all before adding refrigerant. I now have him filling out a discharge report that will be given to my property manager, and filed for record.

Like I said before, I was being patient and forgiving before, but I am starting to think that "Joe" just has bad habits, and poor craftsmanship. I don't think he will be a good fit for this team. But the caveat is that for some reason, it is very difficult to find qualified technicians in my area.

So, should I keep "Joe"? Or should I fire him and find and train someone new?

Thanks, everyone.

[beenthere]

Perhaps. Lay down the rules. He will flow nitrogen while brazing. He will use nitrogen to test for leaks. Or he can go back to the agency and wait for another assignment.

[2sac]

Apartment maintenance? You get what you pay for.
As far as firing someone, there are 2 trains of thought. Summer is fastly approaching and sometimes gambling on extra help with a mediocre skill set is a better option then being understaffed and falling weeks behind.

[YoungSuper]

Perhaps. Lay down the rules. He will flow nitrogen while brazing. He will use nitrogen to test for leaks. Or he can go back to the agency and wait for another assignment.

The only problem with this is that I have done similar with other things since he started working here. I have explained that he needs to do things a certain way, and I have explained why he should. He's more a "this is how we did it back in my day, this is how I've always done it-- so this is how I do it now." Stuck in his ways more or less.

[YoungSuper]

Apartment maintenance? You get what you pay for.
As far as firing someone, there are 2 trains of thought. Summer is fastly approaching and sometimes gambling on extra help with a mediocre skill set is a better option then being understaffed and falling weeks behind.

^^True. You get what you pay for. Unfortunately I have no control over pay rates. The other pint you mentioned is heavily on my mind as well, though. Summer IS approaching, and we're already seeing an influx of A/C troubles. I just wonder if I would be able to train someone to do everything the right way during this crucial time.

[samgevas]

The biggest problem you are gonna face in facilities management is that a good/qualified HVAC/R tech can usually get a much higher paying job.
This leaves you with mostly the chaff, that for one reason or another couldn’t get/keep a job in the mainstream trade.

My advice would be to higher younger tech school grads or others just starting out. Train them the way that you want.

You can’t afford both competence and experience. You can work around inexperience, it’s a lot harder to deal with incompetence.

Just keep in mind that right about the time that your best trainee finely starts to really become productive, they are going to move on/up.
If the management opportunity hadn’t come to you, would you have remained, making the same salary even after acquiring the skills to earn more elsewhere?


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[YoungSuper]

The biggest problem you are gonna face in facilities management is that a good/qualified HVAC/R tech can usually get a much higher paying job.
This leaves you with mostly the chaff, that for one reason or another couldn’t get/keep a job in the mainstream trade.

My advice would be to higher younger tech school grads or others just starting out. Train them the way that you want.

You can’t afford both competence and experience. You can work around inexperience, it’s a lot harder to deal with incompetence.

Just keep in mind that right about the time that your best trainee finely starts to really become productive, they are going to move on/up.
If the management opportunity hadn’t come to you, would you have remained, making the same salary even after acquiring the skills to earn more elsewhere?


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No, I probably wouldn't stay here too much longer after gaining the necessary experience to get into the actual HVAC industry. You make a good point. I have definitely noticed that the pay ceiling is only about $20-$25 in my area, and that is as a supervisor.

Before I officially took the supervisor position here, I was actually looking into jobs with HVAC/R companies in my area. I just don't want to feel like I am quitting on the team here. They need good maintenance, and the job isn't that bad at all.

[Tommytools]

Welcome to the world of supervision. First get someone else I would rather have someone calling me when unsure and doing it correct then the job being "@#$#@ed" up and having to go back. Get someone that has minimum exp. and create an SOP. Get him PMing systems right away and get him use to touching everything. Goes along way when they have had their hands on it. "Joe" probably still recovers through a bucket of water! I have been in the very situation you describe and have moved on. Train the guy the "correct" way and go from there. Second previous replies are correct anyone worth a Damn is going to be able to make considerable more in the field so be prepared to train every two years.

[YoungSuper]

Welcome to the world of supervision. First get someone else I would rather have someone calling me when unsure and doing it correct then the job being "@#$#@ed" up and having to go back. Get someone that has minimum exp. and create an SOP. Get him PMing systems right away and get him use to touching everything. Goes along way when they have had their hands on it. "Joe" probably still recovers through a bucket of water! I have been in the very situation you describe and have moved on. Train the guy the "correct" way and go from there. Second previous replies are correct anyone worth a Damn is going to be able to make considerable more in the field so be prepared to train every two years.

^^That's what I'm not looking forward to about the job-- training new people every few years. But honestly, I'll probably only stay at this property a max of three years. By then, I'll know plenty to enough to move on, and I will have had enough time to leave a positive mark on the property and company.

[HVAC_Marc]

joe is a lazy hack and needs to go. he's comfortable in his ways and thinks that he's protected by not being in a professional field such as the in-your-face residential or commercial customer. im not implying that your job isnt professional, just that it isnt like being "out there".

[beenthere]

The only problem with this is that I have done similar with other things since he started working here. I have explained that he needs to do things a certain way, and I have explained why he should. He's more a "this is how we did it back in my day, this is how I've always done it-- so this is how I do it now." Stuck in his ways more or less.

Then give him one more chance by simply explaining a simple rule. It my way or the highway.

[Kennyhvac]

Tell him it’s non negotiable......this is how it’s done or he can head home

[HVAC_Marc]

the biggest problem is going to be that he's "not going to listen to some young whipper-snapper telling how to do a job." you can tell him all you want, and he may even agree, but he wont do it unless you're standing over him for every job. Are you going to open or test every system he works on?

Ultimately, blame for poor operation and failure will fall on you.

[BBeerme]

Sadly, this sounds like one of those jobs/cases where notes need to be taken each day.

Get a spiral bound note book and start documenting things. Both good and bad. [There is a reason you need it to be one of those spiral bound notebooks]

It will save your azz when you get hauled into court for age discrimination.

Probably don't want to leave that note book where anyone else will find it or pick it up.

[heatingman]

Your between a rock and a lazy worthless tech.

You probably wont get a real ace applying for an apartment maintenance job, I doubt the pay scale is there. Might get lucky with a guy thats really good but has personal issues like a DUI or something. I assume you roll around on golf carts, probably dont need an official license for that.

Or, you could easily get a moldable young buck right out of trade school.


Either way, cut your loses. Id probably start running the adds while he is still employed. Make sure he knows too. See if anything changes.




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[stat]

See if anything changes.

If anything does change, it will only last until he starts to feel comfortable again. You are wasting your time with him. Cut your losses.

[pctech]

i would carefully lay down the rules and if he cant follow them send him back to the temp agency and let them find a new job for him.
Maby a good sit down talk about back in the day was back in the day and to day is to day and things need to be done the way i want and my boss wants or we will have to part ways.

[pctech]

youre job is to do good work for them while you work for them if you leave its your right to go elsewhare for more money and benifits.
if you are comftable with the money and benifits whare you are then stay its a choise you have to make

[YoungSuper]

the biggest problem is going to be that he's "not going to listen to some young whipper-snapper telling how to do a job." you can tell him all you want, and he may even agree, but he wont do it unless you're standing over him for every job. Are you going to open or test every system he works on?

Ultimately, blame for poor operation and failure will fall on you.

^^Exxaaaaaccttlllyyyyy. I seem to always have this problem with older generations. I am in the process of finding someone to replace him with right now. I don't want to fire him outright just yet, because I can still put him on small work orders and punches for the time being. Finding someone that I feel comfortable bringing on and training is going to be tough, though.

[crazzycajun]

Sadly, this sounds like one of those jobs/cases where notes need to be taken each day.

Get a spiral bound note book and start documenting things. Both good and bad. [There is a reason you need it to be one of those spiral bound notebooks]


It will save your azz when you get hauled into court for age discrimination.

Probably don't want to leave that note book where anyone else will find it or pick it up.

Around here this is the reason employers go through temp agencies they can send anyone back without fear of retribution. If they get a good worker they then hire them full time in a lot of cases. As others have stated if there a good employee they won’t last the pay isn’t there.