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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by exreo View Post
    Except if you live in China.
    It's easy to make a million copies of a Frozen DVD, but higher values products are much harder to copy and ship to the states. That said, the Chinese have become the defacto masters of design theft, and they know all about the iphone, since they are building it there. Maybe the hapless guy in the video on the first post should call Beijing. They can tell him how to fix those phones.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    It's easy to make a million copies of a Frozen DVD, but higher values products are much harder to copy and ship to the states. That said, the Chinese have become the defacto masters of design theft, and they know all about the iphone, since they are building it there. Maybe the hapless guy in the video on the first post should call Beijing. They can tell him how to fix those phones.
    He knows how to fix the phones, but it usually requires torrented schematics from Russia and pulling parts from other used/broken phones since Apple will not sell them to him for any price, and will not give him any kind of certification to repair their devices no matter what he would like to pay. Look at it this way: Would you like to be in the HVAC business if Trane refused to provide you with certain parts and boards that you can't get generic versions of, and also did not provide the wiring diagram in any form at all unless you downloaded it illegally from a russian torrent site? His repairs are the equivalent of pulling RTRM boards off of junk equipment for the purpose to fixing good equipment that has a bad board, because "Trane" (Apple) won't sell him the parts. Furthermore, the "authorized" apple dealers are NOT ALLOWED by Apple to repair certain problems - they can only replace the device which is extremely wasteful, and is also not an option if the device has irreplaceable data stuck on it (pictures, videos, etc).

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    This is an interesting discussion that I would like to have seeing as it impacts our trade in a very real way. Basically, the premise is that the manufacturer would like to prevent you from repairing their products and refuses to provide diagrams and parts unless you are an "authorized" (by them) repair person/shop. The following video discusses this from the perspective of a person that repairs Apple products such as iPhones and MacBooks, and I highly recommend watching his take on the matter. I'm concerned that this anti-repair mentality is slowly creeping into many more aspects of our lives, and could eventually impact our trade even more so than it does already. (Example: certain diagnostic tools for Trane products are only available to Trane distributors, and not to any capable tech that would like to buy them.)

    Well it seems to me there has always been a certain segment of out population who wants to replace rather than repair. I'm not sure if this is a new phenomenon. With regard to Apple in particular I really don't care for their phone and the fact that it's hard to replace the battery is one of the many reasons why.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjk_cmh View Post
    He knows how to fix the phones, but it usually requires torrented schematics from Russia and pulling parts from other used/broken phones since Apple will not sell them to him for any price, and will not give him any kind of certification to repair their devices no matter what he would like to pay. Look at it this way: Would you like to be in the HVAC business if Trane refused to provide you with certain parts and boards that you can't get generic versions of, and also did not provide the wiring diagram in any form at all unless you downloaded it illegally from a russian torrent site? His repairs are the equivalent of pulling RTRM boards off of junk equipment for the purpose to fixing good equipment that has a bad board, because "Trane" (Apple) won't sell him the parts. Furthermore, the "authorized" apple dealers are NOT ALLOWED by Apple to repair certain problems - they can only replace the device which is extremely wasteful, and is also not an option if the device has irreplaceable data stuck on it (pictures, videos, etc).

    No problemo..... if Trane decided that they didn't want to sell me parts, I would explain to the customer the need for a different brand of unit... be very convincing.... and that unit will be on their roof and Trane would sell no parts. Trane actually knows this....which is why that does not happen.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    No problemo..... if Trane decided that they didn't want to sell me parts, I would explain to the customer the need for a different brand of unit... be very convincing.... and that unit will be on their roof and Trane would sell no parts. Trane actually knows this....which is why that does not happen.
    That's all well and good until an entire industry starts having this problem, and then you end up throwing away perfectly good stuff that is a year out of warranty. Like I said, wasteful, and in some cases there are no other options to choose from. I should be allowed to fix things that I own or that other people pay me to fix without fear of being branded as a criminal and sued by the manufacturer, which is what is happening more and more in the higher technology equipment space.

  8. #32
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    The business of America ( the US) is business. Make America Great Again really means making business great again.
    How many read the agreement that we click on with software. The agreements are not all equal. You might be surprised on what you've agreed to.
    You could look at "Terms of service agreements I didn't read" It a site that rates them and gives a look at some traps.
    Thing is a contract can have anything embedded just like when some of y'all write service/install contracts. Some that have been posted in part I wouldn't sign.
    Many purchases are conditional. Full of intellectual property and conditions. That is what I would also do if I had a product I thought might get stolen. Play music and sell CD's. Some think they should be able to copy and even distribute the property. I don't.
    In that instance the purchase is permission to use and that's it. And the laws agree.

    The down side is business also has the ability to steal ideas and average Joe won't have the tools to stop them. Tools like lawyers, time, and $$. Interesting when Joe trues to patent his idea. So before someone shouts about their rights or what they should be allowed they might want to take a closer look at what they are NOT allowed to do. Most likely it's embedded in the agreement they signed.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  10. #33
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    That doesn't make it legal.


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    The business of America ( the US) is business. Make America Great Again really means making business great again.
    How many read the agreement that we click on with software. The agreements are not all equal. You might be surprised on what you've agreed to.
    You could look at "Terms of service agreements I didn't read" It a site that rates them and gives a look at some traps.
    Thing is a contract can have anything embedded just like when some of y'all write service/install contracts. Some that have been posted in part I wouldn't sign.
    Many purchases are conditional. Full of intellectual property and conditions. That is what I would also do if I had a product I thought might get stolen. Play music and sell CD's. Some think they should be able to copy and even distribute the property. I don't.
    In that instance the purchase is permission to use and that's it. And the laws agree.

    The down side is business also has the ability to steal ideas and average Joe won't have the tools to stop them. Tools like lawyers, time, and $$. Interesting when Joe trues to patent his idea. So before someone shouts about their rights or what they should be allowed they might want to take a closer look at what they are NOT allowed to do. Most likely it's embedded in the agreement they signed.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  11. #34
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    A 'free' society ONLY works... when the majority of people are basically honest and believe society is more important than how much $$$ they can make and how many toys they can die with title to.

    When a society moves towards that second set of (self destructive values)... the end result is a free society becomes an oligarch or warlord society.

    Now do we want that to happen here???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    A 'free' society ONLY works... when the majority of people are basically honest and believe society is more important than how much $$$ they can make and how many toys they can die with title to.
    Sounds very similar to the basis of communism! :grin:

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  13. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellkamp View Post
    Sounds very similar to the basis of communism! :grin:

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    The difference... is in communism, or socialism, or marxism... the govt controls everything.
    In freedom, the market controls business.

    If you want to discuss this more... suggest we take it to ARP...
    Respect for the forum... keeping ARP in ARP...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  14. #37
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    Jefferson opined that a representative Republic can only sustain itself if it is populated by a moral people.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Jefferson opined that a representative Republic can only sustain itself if it is populated by a moral people.
    Jefferson was correct.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  16. #39
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    Over the years I have learned and it is my opinion and observation: 1. Manufacturers have the right to sell equipment, parts and share drawings, specification or other intelectual information with whomever they wish. 2. There are some components that are only available from the manufacturer. 3. Manufacturer only parts, does not mean you can't buy the replacement part from somone who is authroized to purchase them. The underlying reasons who manufacturers choose is to protect the manufacturers assets and profits for as long as they can.


    With respect to repairing "stuff".
    No manufacturer has the right to tell anyone who has purchased their "thing" they can't repair the defective "thing" or have a 3rd or 4th party repair it for them. What manufacturers can prohibit is you or anyone else from stating they are an "authorized" vendor and/or the manufacturer backs their repair typically via a warranty of some sort, if it is not true. You can warrant your labor or the parts you sold them (if you wish to, that is at your potential cost/lose)

    As an example: If this were not true there would be no auto parts stores, no automotive repair shops, no remanufacturerd parts, no junkyards or any other place to get a repair part for your car/truck except the dealership. This applys to anything else you wish to apply it to such as: air conditioners or tractors. Last fall I purchased a Timken bearing from a local supply house to replace the identical bearing in my Ford Expedition. Did I break any law? Nope!

    Warranties, patents and proprietary information throw wrinkles into the repair aspect many times, but that does not prohibit anyone from making a repair for an owner of an item. The repair may not be with OEM parts but how many really use just OEM purchased replacement parts? (Did you buy that last last condensor fan motor from Trane or was it a universal replacement from the supply house?) I listened to a news report last week that the federal govenment specifically told Sony, Samsung and several other large electronic manufacturers they could not say only authorized vendor's can make warranty repairs. I have been trying to find that information to link here (but have not found it yet). If I do I will add it.

    The weather is about perfect here today, I just may quit early and enjoy it, have a good afternoon

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